查看完整版本: 單打, 即ban. Instead: concrete suggestions pls. (updated on Aug 16)

單打, 即ban. Instead: concrete suggestions pls. (updated on Aug 16)

With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for long... I've been silent for a long time... many many users support me banning them but I intend to wait to see if they can give us any good suggestions... instead, they just keep 單打 and 單打... this is not a healthy atmosphere...

I'm sad about this.  if you have any suggestions, just PM me.  I'm glad to resopnd.  but if any one continue to reply and 單打... I will ban him at once.  and my dear friend, Alfred, agree with my decision.

I accept suggestions, especially concrete suggestions, but not 單打.   Crticizing is very easy.  I saw an article complaing superman's clothes... it is easy for you to complain batman's clothes as well.  I can easily write such articles also... wearing red underwear... ugly?!  but what's your point?  What is your suggestion?  My suggestion is: give us concrete suggestions, but not 單打.

I have already given a very big notice that I hope all of you can discuss stuff peacefully.  Over 1 month.

The reason why I ban loksiu is that he speculate/guess someone doing something without concrete evidence.  And the fact is: loksiu say/speculate something without concrete evidence support.  Guessing (yes really guessing) that someone collects money for illegal behaviours.  He just 取笑.   Court did need concrete evidence.  I did need concrete evidence.  Until now, I still don't have this evidence.   I did know the law of any big country.  At least I do understand them.  That is 誹謗.  He is crazy.  If I suddenly laughed at you that I think you have collected money for writing an article in the forum, but without evidence, what do you think. 己所不欲，勿施於人.

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I've already mentioned in the topic.  

1.  attack without concrete suggestions.  Ban...

2. negative emotion attack, even with suggestions, I will also ban.

3. My concrete suggestion is: be polite and voice out your opinions.  I'm open minded to listen.  Otherwise, if you shout and shout, even if you shout the right thing, I will shut it down.

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哈哈！
好過癮呀！

:lol

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這樣的決定實在令人失望！:fire:

單打，也可以說是討論技巧。不准單打，那是否日後要明刀明槍的指罵﹝例如一些版主在外間借在此寫東西之名作威作福﹞？但這樣又會有人說是人身攻擊。:soldier:

另，兼聽則明。只是去聽某些會員版主的私下說話﹝我對於不停向大版主送pm的人沒好感，有唔高興公開post出來啦﹞，對討論區沒啥好處。:(

或許，真的是時候了:wave::wave::wave:

噢，等我俾啲concrete suggestions先：

(1) 除隱藏版外，取消或盡量減少唯版主或moderator可進入的區域。這樣可令普通會員知道討論區發生的事宜，或者可以減少誤會爭拗

(2) 禁止會員包括版主及moderator以pm形式向大版主投訴針對其他會員。因為既然認為投訴有理，為甚麼不可以公開講？以及，這樣對被投訴者更公平。

[[i] 本帖最後由 tungpo 於 2007-8-14 17:09 編輯 [/i]]

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[quote]原帖由 [i]趙應春_2007[/i] 於 2007-8-14 17:07 發表
小弟絕對贊同大版主大大之做法。子曰：治亂世，用重典；割包皮，拿較剪。大版主大大之包皮一日不割，終會惶惶終日，寢食不安。(此乃比喻，並非單打。)

小弟願為大版主大大手中之利剪，望大版主大大善加利用。: ... [/quote]

你用既比喻好難聽同埋好差呀.....你都係小出聲為妙.....

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 15:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]

[size=4][color=Green]我是messenger!!!

請問我有單打你什麼呢?

答唔到就再BAN埋我吧!!! :soldier:[/color][/size]

蝙蝠俠, 你咁做有咩用呢, 怨氣仲重, 仲多單打選手, 諗過條橋啦

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 03:21 PM 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]


[color=Red][b][size=6]xocatII   你係咪黐九左線呀！！！

BAN  Q 晒我班 Fd  ！！！

咁唔好玩啦！！  不如一於摺九埋佢！！

你自己一個玩撚晒佢啦！！！[/size][/b][/color]

To Batman:

your suggestion / reason are too vague!!

i can't really accept what you have done to them!!

and i feel sorry for your action!

大版主如此一ban，結果引黎幾個藏頭露尾既分身出黎推水，唔知呢Ｄ又算唔算係[color=Red]『單打』[/color]呢？:wondering::wondering::wondering:

concrete suggestions係：冇！:byebye:

不如諗下計點樣消除呢度既怨氣先啦！

[[i] 本帖最後由 祖雲達斯 於 2007-8-15 00:33 編輯 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 15:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]

我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOCAT，理應挺身而出，去揾個問題出黎，而唔係keep silent for a long time！等到你地唔忍得，就加條新例出黎ban晒D”單打”你地既會員，咁做只會有更多會員對你既做法側目，更加解决唔到問題；悠悠眾口，你點ban得晒？至尊豪庭都發展到第九代啦。
對你地既管理手法”單單打打”係一件好正常既事；幫得你地手既版主/會員有野講，你地就愛理不理；D會員口痕叫你開個新區，你地又有效率冇考慮咁去回應(可以考究番”創業版”的成立)，攪到”創業版”變成免費廣告版；對分版小版主既任免，就更加係講彩數。淨係呢睇在一D幫得你地手既版主/會員眼中，又點會冇怨言？怨言積到咁上下，你地又愛理不理，咁就suggestion變”單打”。
更何況係呢班”單打”你地既會員，亦並唔係一開始就”單打”你地，佢地亦曾經卜心卜命去做小版主，幫你剷走D無聊垃圾帖，維持版面秩序，有部份仲要攪到連屋企人都比D野蠻會員問候；聽下睇下佢地有乜野講，比D正面既回應，佢地就係你地既好幫手，而家個個變晒頂心衫，你地又有冇諗過自已有份一手做成？
試諗下，炮艇工兵作為modeator，佢做既係為左平衡大版主們同會員們係”17歲私鐘打真軍”上既睇法，你連佢都ban埋，點服衆?
建議：
大版主們一個星期抽三日，每日兩個鐘，主動D去睇下回應下”版主專區”、”意見箱”同埋”版主/新版加設區”，有野跟進就跟進，冇野跟進咪吹下水；要有PM先考慮應唔應，同做紙版警察有乜分別?無為而治係好，但係唔係成日都行得通。

PS：羅賓、dear friend講既唔一定啱得晒；有時迷妖、小丑都有D意見聽得下！


我上面講既係版務意見，意見應該存在係意見箱，唔應該淨係靠PM交流。

同文將以PM形式，送呈大版主。

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回復 #17 anakin 的帖子

講得好!!

小弟支持anakin你呀!!!!!

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[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]
有質素的回應:verygood::verygood::verygood::bow::bow::bow:

[quote]原帖由 [i]祖雲達斯[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:56 發表

有質素的回應:verygood::verygood::verygood::bow::bow::bow: [/quote]


:givemefive: 同意! :givemefive:

[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]


:verygood::verygood::verygood:

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[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]

講得好 :applause:
直接批評(唔係單打)
言之有物(有証有據)
有用建議 (有建設性)
我很贊同 :handshake

回復 #17 anakin 的帖子

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[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]
講得非常好! :bow::bow:

回復 #17 anakin 的帖子

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一個有私心既諗法(我係成人電影版版主)，
事件源於"17崴私鐘打真軍"一帖，
内容所提及既始終難辨事實真偽，
為此版務問題而鬧上官府，
可能真係會牽連成個討論區，
着實難以認同...............................
.....................真係報左官?

[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]

anakin兄深明大義.我地如果唔係對timway存有感情,又點會留o係度,兼出thread出言去建議/批評呢? :handshake

你係資深會員,最近更出任版主,呢度靠你喇~~~ :bow:

[quote]原帖由 [i]golden_baby[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:58 發表

太公不知每日同佢做幾多野la，咁都ban，你估鰟版易做架;P，花d時間去玩下/蹾$$唔好？太公可？:P

難得亞拿堅兄仲會對佢講咁多道理，服:bow: [/quote]

算啦.....無官一身輕. :butwiggle: :butwiggle:

每日慳返兩粒鐘,用黎搵下$好過......... :lol:lol

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[quote]原帖由 [i]fachai[/i] 於 2007-8-15 01:11 發表

講得非常好! :bow::bow: [/quote]

你未香咩!? :quiet:;P

咪咁多嘴....遲早瓜.........:lol

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[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 15:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]

To Mr. XocatII,

According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary: A Forum is: a public meeting place for open discussion or a medium (as a newspaper or [b] online service [/b]) of [b] open discussion or expression of ideas [/b]

If a forum is for open discussion of topics and expression of ideas, then those who joined the forum should have the rights to freely express their ideas or opinion in different ways or by using different methods. There is always more than one way to express an idea or opinion during discussion or in an argument. People with different experience, educational and social background will have different ways of expression. Some may use單打 as an implicit ways to express their opinion or some may do it in an explicit way by speaking out loudly. Whatever they use, it is still one of the ways to voice out their opinions. As long as they are not deliberately attack other members personally due to some personal issues or using Foul Languages to insult peoples, then there is nothing wrong for them if they use 單打 as their ways of expressions.

If according to your point of view, then should RTHK Banned all the "Victoria Park Old man” in the Weekly TV program City Forum, due to their ways of expression (those guys even use much more Fierce ways or even personal attacks)??

Besides, the points you made that support your action is kind of weak and I didn’t see it rationalize for your decision.

First of all, I didn't see those banned members attack Xocat (all of them are super or senior VIPs'). If the word Xocat you wrote refers to our Forum, then I didn't see any evidence showing that they have done this. It is illogical for xocat members to attack their own forum, and it doesn’t make any sense. However, if you refer to the word, Xocat is you then, sorry, I will say they just disagree for what you have done in certain cases but I won't put Disagree equal to Attack.

Secondly, you have try very hard to prove that you got” Many Many “supports from other members but how Many is Many? One, Two, or Hundred? And you also mentioned that your friend Alfred support you, but sorry. I didn’t see that have anything to do with your decision to ban more than 10 Senior Members at once.

In addition, if you are as you said that an Open Minded person, how come you would not take other people's disagreement on what you have done in some incident. Is that as a member of Xocat has to Totally Agree to what you done and cannot discuss openly in the forum? Is that an Obligation of a member in a Forum? I wonder?

Besides, you wrote, “ Even if you shout the right thing, I will shut it down.” If you are really Open Minded, how come you will shut it down if it is right?  Because of Politeness? According to your point of view that單打 is not politeness?


Moreover, you said you wait for 6 months to see if they can give you Good Suggestion, even though Many Many members support you to ban them all. Did you talk to them personally or publicly that you are waiting for their Suggestions? Well, from what you wrote, it seems that you don’t like them criticise without any ”Concrete Suggestion”. However, I just wonder if there is any rules for the member of Xocat has to give out Suggestions on what they criticise or disagree with. Did you ever see any Editors from various Newspaper need their readers to post out suggestion along with their letters to the editors for any complaint they made and will those Editors refuse to post out those complaint letters if there is no suggestions that come with it?

A last and most important thing that I totally disagree for what you have done is that, you Banned them all first, then post out the rule that 單打 is Forbidden. Well, to me as an member of xocat, it just like a policeman shot an ordinary citizen and then the police said “Sorry, man your behaviour of picking nose is not acceptable and I have been watching you for half an hour and wait for you to stop but you didn’t, that is why I have to kill you…and from now on, whoever do the same thing, I will kill them.” Taking Action First, then made the rules or legislation later is Totally Unacceptable. It is not the right way that a Moderator does. It just give us an impression that “I am the Law, I can do whatever I like or I FEEL it is right” and you have reminded me what George W. Bush said after 911 attack “ You are either with us or against us”.

As a member of xocat for more than 5 years, I seldom express my opinion in that General Discussion Forum and this time, I am totally Disappointed on what you have done.


If you really want  to know my Suggestion, then I will suggest you to made the rules first before you Banned them all and I will Strongly Suggest you to Re-Active their Accounts At Once.

[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]

Whole Heartly and Totally Agree with you..:applause::applause::verygood::verygood:

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-13 23:21 發表
[color=Red][size=6]單打, 即ban[/size][/color] ... [/quote]


[color=Red][size=6]Batman先生:

對你的發言和處理手法深表遺憾!

請問你是否需要控制一下你的情緒和冷靜一下?   [/size][/color]

Extremely busy these days, but need to set an alarm clock to login in and give you some easy suggestions for a stupid administrator like you, xocatII.

If you have the following three behavior, nothing will be happened:-

1. Actively respond to enquiries.  You are an administrator, and you ask all questions directing to you.  However, you didn't response in a timely way, or not even drop a note to the members openly that 'you heard their voices, but will reply later'.  You are not a responsbile administrator in this sense.  If you don't response, and the members keep pushing for your reply, and you said they are 單打ing.  What a nonsense proposition!  You asked them to give suggestions, what about you?  Did you give any counter suggestions to their '單打'? No!  All you have done, is ban, ban, ban!

2. Give your comments or reasoning before banning anyone.  If you are going to ban them anyway, why don't you give your reason first, and allow one day for their comments?  This will not lead to more 單打, but only an open discussion, and showing yourself as an respectful person, or your respect other members.  Now, what you're doing is just a dictator.

3. Remember who are really supporting Xocat Forum wholeheartedly.  If we don't care, or they don't care, they won't say anything.  They are not initiating any crisis to push you out of the arena.  And you?  What's your focus now?  Hit rate?  Or any insightful plan for this forum?  I don't think so.  All the members you've banned are members of over three years at least, and now you are relying on a few members, creating different names to 'hit' the forum, giving unrealistic 'attractive' reports, and attracting others to come.  Ha, do you know how short-sighted you are!

You open this thread, and you are just welcoming more criticism from others.  I know I'll be banned anyway, but you better save your energy to press the button, because anyway this forum is so disappointed, and you're pushing quality members out.  Apart from our previous CEO of HKSAR Mr. Tung, you must be the second most stupid person in HK.  Well, do I have evidence that you're really stupid?  Hmmm....this forum and your way of management is the most solid evidence.

Whether you want to change or style or not, I just don't give a fucking damn.  I believe those banned members will be united again, and appear in another forum.  And you, continue to enjoy those 'attractive' reports la.

:wave::wave::wave:

:bird:

[[i] 本帖最後由 bgfantasy 於 2007-8-15 07:52 編輯 [/i]]

[url]http://forum.timway.com/f/thread-122132-1-1.html[/url]

Hey, administrator.  See this thread?  You just don't bother to reply?  Or just open a separate thread to 'announce' will do?  Do you know what is 'respect'?

[url]http://forum.timway.com/f/thread-122195-1-1.html[/url]

That's another thread, administrator.  See?

Any plan to reply?  I will just wait and see how long you'll make your announcement.

[url]http://forum.timway.com/f/thread-122147-1-1.html[/url]

Hey, administrator.  That's another one.  Come on!  You had a nice sauna last night and no time or no energy to reply mei?

My suggestion to you:

1. Reply one by one.  Don't say "too minor to discuss", or just a fucking "DONE".  show some respects to other members.

2. Re-activate their accounts.  Whether they will continue to give opinion, I don't care.  But at least show how you 'open' to public discussion.

[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 00:47 發表


我作為小版主，就有話直說，講下我既睇法。
你地係XOCATII既權威領袖，有野要做，有話直說就得；唔需要講話有多user支持你，更加唔需要突然整條新規定出黎去ban人，你咁做會有損權威。
你地覺得有人攻擊XOC ... [/quote]

:verygood::verygood::verygood:

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 15:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... [color=Red]Robin and I[/color] keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]
建設性既意見係....解散管理團隊,得你一個管理成個forum同所有版面

咁多人管理實在令大版主你難以實行你既管理政策 :bow:

仲有...Robin係邊個黎?? 版主還是管理員?? :wondering:

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[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 15:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]

唔準單打咁組隊雙打得嘛:wondering::wondering::wondering::wondering:男子雙打...女子雙打...混合雙打:victory::victory::victory::victory::victory::victory:

又係喎 !! :jaw:

集體ban , 足球隊黎架喎 !!
咩叫單打呀 ?? :jaw::jaw::jaw::jaw:

[quote]原帖由 [i]xocatII[/i] 於 2007-8-14 07:21 發表
With regard to about 10 users being banned, as they attack xocat in a lot of ways without giving concrete suggestions.  And this has been for over 6 months... Robin and I keep our eyes on it for lo ... [/quote]

I have been extremely busy lately but:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:

just want to ask, u said "they just keep 單打 and 單打... this is not a healthy atmosphere... "............what's ur point? what's ur concrete suggestion?

My point is u r narrowminded and my concrete suggestion is u better change ur mind.

[quote]原帖由 [i]anakin[/i] 於 2007-8-15 12:47 AM 發表
[color=Red]PS：羅賓、dear friend講既唔一定?得晒；有時迷妖、小丑都有D意見聽得下！[/color][/quote]
全日精句你就咁PS下就算？應該呢段擺頭，其實文章全部PS就真，你真有厚道

講得好精彩！:verygood:

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