查看完整版本: 薀莎水療 (Windsor Spa)

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 12:38 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16950633&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
so back to my question - if a client only wants a massage (no VAS) and he got a poor massage because the girl is unable to give one ... [b]is it justified for Windsor to raise the m[/b][font=Times New Roman][size=3][color=#000000][b]inimum tip when the level of their BGs drop ?[/b] [/color][/size][/font][/quote]

Ideally, in a fair market, if the bg is no good she should expect to forego any tips (and know the reason why).  But the market isn't really fair.  Many (and I do mean [i]many[/i]) customers try to pay as little as possible when they have no loyalty to the bg and there is no one looking over their shoulder to call them cheap.  If there was no minimum tip, I believe too many customers would not pay any tip at all.  As I know you know (and most of us should know), bgs survive only on the tips they can earn.  Not paying a bg a decent tip for service well-provided is sort of like spitting in her face.  

For good veggie, $100/session is the standard tip, and most bgs are happy with that.  That's really not a lot of money to pay for coming away feeling much better than when you went in.  Assuming 2 sessions per customer. if a bg can do two to three customers a day, she comes away with only about $520 to $780 for her hard work (assume $40/session "wages" + $90/session tip after Windsor takes 10%).  Could we support a family on that income?  Not easily.  But many bgs do (themselves, parents and/or kids).

I say all of the above only to re-inforce what you and others have told brothers here many times.  Tipping always seems to be an issue in this forum, and the fact that tips [i]are the major source of income[/i] for bgs in veggie saunas needs to be repeatedly made clear.

To answer your posed question on how to convey dissatifaction with a bg in the context of Windsor's rising minimum tip, all I can say is to complain "nicely" to management that the bg you experienced wasn't really good.  I find 寶文 to be quite receptive to constructive criticism about the bgs and the sauna.  He can and does talk to the girls, and I assume he can and does talk to the bosses if he sees something wrong in the business operation.

I don't think complaining about specific bg's lack of skills at the front desk presently does much good, as I don't think desk staff are trained to handle such complaints/reporting.  But we can pose the question at the front desk about the minimum tip really being required if the bg's service really isn't good at all (e.g., "Do I have to pay the minimum tip if the bg's massage is really bad?").  If enough of us asked this question [i]rhetorically[/i] at payment time, I'm sure someone would eventurally take notice that customers want a channel of communication with both the sauna management and the bgs that we expect a minimum standard of skill before a tip is handed over.  We could all try this, right?

[[i] 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 15:28 編輯 [/i]]

One thing just occured to me ... [b]for those of us that appreciates getting a[/b] [b]good massage ...[/b]
why is there so little info sharing in this forum on the girls that actually gives good massage ?

seems the majority of the questions here relates to who gives added service ... :shit:

[[i] 本帖最後由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:17 編輯 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:07 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951680&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]You're so right about the market not being fair, nor can it be fair, given the way the sauna scene works in HK.Airport saunas have no tipping system - is that fairer for the BGs ? I'm not sure ... [/quote]

perhaps it would ease your disappointment
if you alternate between Windsor and another
sauna，say OPS. a diversion.

各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？:handshake

[quote]原帖由 [i]白貓兒[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:13 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951724&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


perhaps it would ease your disappointment
if you alternate between Windsor and another
sauna，say OPS. a diversion. [/quote]

I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGs

I hope that what I've written over the past few days doesn't give anyone here the impression that I'm complaining about everything ... in fact far from it - I enjoy going to the saunas, I enjoy the BGs that gives me good massages and the chemistry I've built both with the BGs and management ... but I do see what bros here have recently been writing about are close to the truth, I'm just reinforcing what they are saying and also adding some alternative views.

Its a pity my Chinese typing is so bad, I know the management reads this forum and I hope they can understand the English dialogue being discussed here

[quote]原帖由 [i]左擁右抱[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951791&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？:handshake [/quote]

sorry, my written Chinese is so so and I can't type in Chinese - wish I could !

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:31 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951818&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGsI hope that what I've written over the past few ... [/quote]

The panel of directors at Windsor should
have no problem understanding the English
here so far given their educational attainment .

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:31 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951818&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGsI hope that what I've written over the past few ... [/quote]

But dont you still patronise GFS from time
to time? Most probably you go to sauna
more than 'twice a week'.

[quote]原帖由 [i]白貓兒[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:43 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951864&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


The panel of directors at Windsor should
have no problem understanding the English
here so far given their educational attainment . [/quote]


good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !

I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we are writing our opinions from our heart ... I hope they at lease try to see things from the point of view of massage orientated customers.

Bro Whitekitty ... would you let them know that the last few pages of this forum are constructive suggestions for them ... just in case they missed this ?

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:07 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951680&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
You're so right about the market not being fair, nor can it be fair, given the way the sauna scene works in HK.Airport saunas have no tipping system - is that fairer for the BGs ? I'm not sure ... [/quote]

Seems this got edited out . . . But I'd like to respond to it.  I don't think any compensation arrangement is unfair if the bg knows in advance what she's agreeing to and what she's getting in return for giving her time and service.  Airports generally pay a higher hourly "wage" than veggie places in exchange for the uncertainty of tip income.  Some girls prefer this.  Others do not.

However, I would offer that customers, by choosing which type of sauna they visit, also agree to support the compensation terms for the bgs of that particular sauna.  For Windsor and other veggie places, that means paying a fair tip.

[quote]原帖由 [i]白貓兒[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:50 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951902&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


But dont you still patronise GFS from time
to time? Most probably you go to sauna
more than 'twice a week'. [/quote]


:lol   you are so right !  I also go to GFS ... and every day I try not to think about how much money I spend in saunas !  :L

[quote]原帖由 [i]左擁右抱[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951791&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？:handshake [/quote]

C'mon!  It's good practice for you!  :verygood:  More interesting than reading an English textbook!!   :beer:

[[i] 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 17:02 編輯 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951929&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we a ... [/quote]I think it is really up to them and they need no reminder on keeping abreast of what is voiced here.

[[i] 本帖最後由 白貓兒 於 2012-4-26 17:22 編輯 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951929&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !

I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we a ... [/quote]

Agree that management would benefit from reading this!  :verygood:

(so would Carmanlam's gf!!)  :lol

[quote]原帖由 [i]observer2012[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951937&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Seems this got edited out . . . But I'd like to respond to it.  I don't think any compensation arrangement is unfair if the bg knows in advance what she's agreeing to and what she's getting in ret ... [/quote]

Absolutely !  that's what we all should do while working within the system of each establishment (though in real life, some do complain even though they have to work in the system)

what I'm trying to suggest or debate is - if the fixed payment system would work in the veggie sauna industry ...
(even though this will bring about even more lazy BGs)

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 17:07 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16952005&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

Absolutely !  that's what we all should do while working within the system of each establishment (though in real life, some do complain even though they have to work in the system)

what I'm try ... [/quote]

Sea Crest Sauna (海怡桑拿), primarily a veggie place, has a fixed price system.  Bgs get a higher hourly wage (comparable to an airport rate).  I know one girl working there who's worked at most veggie saunas over the years.  She returned to work there, preferring their fixed-rate compensation system to a tip system.  Sea Crest also has fewer girls on queue, so she gets more walk-in customers there than compared to working elsewhere.

What is important to her, and to most girls in this business, is constant, predictable income.  This means a good balance between regular customers (regular bookings) and walk-ins.  The problem for Windsor bgs is that there are [i]too many bgs [/i]in the queue, so income is not so reliable.  I hope Windsor can stablize this situation for their bgs.  This is one of the main messages I hope Windsor management can get from this thread.

[[i] 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 19:15 編輯 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]observer2012[/i] 於 2012-4-26 17:38 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16952256&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Sea Crest Sauna (海怡桑拿), primarily a veggie place, has a fixed price system.  Bgs get a higher hourly wage (comparable to an airport rate).  I know one girl working there who's worked at most v ... [/quote]

Interesting ...

do you still go there at all ?  reason I ask is do you know if they still "reuse" used towels by just drying them instead of washing ? many years ago I went there ... the 2nd or 3rd time I went I saw them doing this and never went again !

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-26 17:47 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16952314&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

Interesting ...

do you still go there at all ?  reason I ask is do you know if they still "reuse" used towels by just drying them instead of washing ? many years ago I went there ... the 2nd or ... [/quote]

Never heard of or saw this!  It's been probably three years since I was there last.  The place is a bit run down, for sure; a consequence of catering to the budget market.

[quote]原帖由 [i]observer2012[/i] 於 2012-4-26 17:38 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16952256&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url] ...

The problem for Windsor bgs is that there are [i]too many bgs [/i]in the queue, so income is not so reliable.  I hope Windsor can stablize this situation for their bgs.  This is one of the main messages I hope Windsor management can get from this thread. [/quote]

The other main messages are: (1) hire for, or train for, [i]and maintain[/i] an [i][b]above-average[/b][/i] skill level for most, if not all, bgs, and (2) don't let the sauna become an open airport.

[[i] 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 19:16 編輯 [/i]]

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[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-26 19:56 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16953129&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
初初我想他們仍想以正骨打正旗號，問題是十個客人，有多少是女賓，有多少是真真正正的骨精。客人不是要求大師父，後生服務好，細細力R下R下，已可有大量嘜單。
當愈滿足志不在此的客人要求，愈不理房內情況，愈加入 ... [/quote]

你談到的可能百分之百對。兩位我最喜歡的技師已走了。如我其餘最喜歡的也走了，我就跟著她們走，不回來。

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[quote]原帖由 [i]左擁右抱[/i] 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表 [url=http://xocat.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16951791&ptid=320727][img]http://xocat.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？:handshake [/quote]

[color=darkgreen]英文我都係油麻地。　:L

講下自己見解，以上師兄有講而家 Windsor 技師好參差，有些按得好，有些不合格，其實又好難講，客人都可能差別好大，有些好受力，有些就不受力，真係加加有求，配對問題。

自己覺得呢個岩按咪下次再找佢，唔岩就唔再找。

其實代支都係一樣，有些客比代支會較多一些，有些基本一對一。　睇番而家市場，少過一對一就唔係咁好。

其實我都想一個價，全包宴，例如，90 分鐘，八百就八百，一千就一千，唔使煩，不過香港都冇乜全包宴齋場。　

[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-26 21:15 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16953534&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
你可看看這一年來技師的推介討論全是： 後生？靚女？皮膚白滑？高挑？長腿？女友feel?hot?按摩技術...who care? [/quote]

precisely, so my point is ... I'm wondering how many bros out there who still cares more about massage girls that gives good massage in addition to their looks or feel !

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[quote]原帖由 [i]carmanlam8888[/i] 於 2012-4-27 13:58 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16957680&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
not much
most of my PM received are asking me who provide VAS [/quote]


That's what I always thought ... there are more people in this forum asking (and wanting) VAS then there are those that wants a good massage !

I am sure there are many who reads this forum, but don't participate, who feels the massage part is more important ...
for those who do care [u][b]PLEASE SPEAK UP AND ACCOUNT FOR YOURSELVES[/b][/u] !!!

One thing I never truely understood ... there are many more airport joints then veggie, why don't these people visit these places instead of going to a veggie sauna and hoping to get lucky ?

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-27 14:53 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16957907&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
One thing I never truely understood ... there are many more airport joints then veggie, why don't these people visit these places instead of going to a veggie sauna and hoping to get lucky ?  [/quote]

When they go to an open airport, everyone knows why they're there.  :quiet:   When they go to a Windsor, they can claim they're going to get a "pure massage".  Plausible deniablity!!  :lookaround:    Many chings are afraid to be seen in an open airport, lest they be known as the 流氓 that they really are!  :slap:

[quote]原帖由 [i]observer2012[/i] 於 2012-4-27 15:22 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16958077&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


When they go to an open airport, everyone knows why they're there.  :quiet:   When they go to a Windsor, they can claim they're going to get a "pure massage".  Plausible deniablity!!  :lookaround: ... [/quote]

I'm not too sure if that is the main reason ... but if it is, they are ruining it for themselves as sooner or later the place will loose its non veggie sauna status !

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-27 15:30 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16958131&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

I'm not too sure if that is the main reason ... but if it is, they are ruining it for themselves as sooner or later the place will loose its non veggie sauna status ! [/quote]

Or become an open airport . . .

(Then where will they go?? :lol )

[quote]原帖由 [i]observer2012[/i] 於 2012-4-27 15:36 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16958160&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Or become an open airport . . .

(Then where will they go?? :lol ) [/quote]


unfortunately they wouldn't care ... where as we do (about remaining essentially a veggie sauna)

[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-27 15:41 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16958181&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

unfortunately they wouldn't care ... where as we do (about remaining essentially a veggie sauna) [/quote]

Actually, I think there are quite a few customers who [i]do care[/i] about Windsor staying veggie.  They just don't burn time on a forum looking to find GFE.  (Most already have GFs, or are too old to care! :lol )

The truth is we all greedy! Want to have a good massage and VAS at the same joint! Normally those open airports don't provide good massage! In that case, need to visit 2 joints which is very time consuming!:lol :lol

[quote]原帖由 [i]安全[/i] 於 2012-4-27 17:54 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16958957&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
The truth is we all greedy! Want to have a good massage and VAS at the same joint! Normally those open airports don't provide good massage! In that case, need to visit 2 joints which is very time cons ... [/quote]

but there are 'one-country-two-systems' saunas which provides this ...

wanting a good massage as well as VAS is making the massage standards drop ... and this is what we're talking about

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[quote]原帖由 [i]carmanlam8888[/i] 於 2012-4-27 18:39 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16959170&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
some CHing may case about if Windsor can
stay as good veggie but door like the management or the owner doesn't care. they keep hiring more young sexy bg even from airport sauna. all they care is mon ... [/quote]

agree !

that why some of us here are openly talking about this and hoping to remind the owners that they still have long term customers that does not appreciate what they are currently doing ... I doubt if they will change because of what we have written here but at least it will serve as a reminder to them :  airport clients are are not long term clients !

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[quote]原帖由 [i]twiceAweek[/i] 於 2012-4-27 18:47 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16959208&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

airport clients are are not long term clients !  [/quote]

The BGs certainly know this!

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[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-27 19:05 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16959302&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
正骨友會是念舊的忠心客（是對個別技師忠心）
但咸濕客數量多，只要多新血，他們一樣對這場忠心，看看大把人只會試新女。 [/quote]

I really think there are more loyal 正骨 customers (to specific skilled BGs) than this forum would lead you to believe.  They just aren't represented here (because they really have no need to come here).  Count the number of total posters in this thread over all these pages; there really aren't that many different individuals; in all just a small percentage of the customers that regularly go to Windsor (and some are not that regular!).

And keep in mind that "birds of a feather flock together".  The like-mindedness of many the posters here does not mean the majority of Windsor's customers are all of the same mind.

[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-27 19:18 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16959367&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
正骨暗機場：
-每個男人心中總愛偷的感覺，愈違規愈刺激
-可以令一個正骨女幫妳起機，有成功感
-方便，一次做齊所有事情，只須加多一二百元，好過去完機場再去正骨場，消費時間更多
-好多人認為正骨女乾凈點
- ... [/quote]

Can it be that so many chings don't have any sex life outside of this sauna??

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[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-27 19:36 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16959462&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
薀莎客人普遍年齡由四尾至五尾。你認為代表甚麼？ [/quote]

So what you're suggesting is that these age groups in Hong Kong, or at least those going to Windsor, couldn't get a girl to touch them unless they pay for it??

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[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-27 22:41 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16960337&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

事實是我親耳在休息室見到不少客（尤其熟客）大大聲對職員說：技師要靚的／身材好的。 [/quote]

[color=darkgreen]熟客會唔會唔使問，佢應該都清楚晒。　:o

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各位師兄

可有主動揾2字行頭技師按摩 :handshake

[quote]原帖由 [i]dssdsdwsdw[/i] 於 2012-4-27 22:53 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16960392&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

時常有新女，有時我都要問，尤其自己突然有空偷跳，不是自己去慣的更數。 [/quote]

[color=darkgreen]咁又係，如果我係熟客，細細聲同公關查詢就得啦。

[quote]原帖由 [i]左擁右抱[/i] 於 2012-4-27 22:58 發表 [url=http://forum.timway.com/f/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16960426&ptid=320727][img]http://forum.timway.com/f/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
各位師兄

可有主動揾2字行頭技師按摩 :handshake [/quote]

[color=darkgreen]做女賓技師，我未試過。　

時不時都聽到佢地有女賓電 Mark 。