Unexpectedly bumped into this thread and see a few old nostalgic guys chatting happily, without knowing that their long windedness has scared away those younger ones who are in desperate need of help...

引用:

原帖由 oldfella 於 2006-9-10 18:38 發表
Unexpectedly bumped into this thread and see a few old nostalgic guys chatting happily, without knowing that their long windedness has scared away those younger ones who are in desperate need of he ...

Thank you Brother Oldfella for your reminder. I hope we have not done it yet. We start a fire here to share its warmth with every visitor.

Welcome on board !  

[ 本帖最後由 taurus 於 2006-9-11 01:12 AM 編輯 ]

Since you guys are the very few who can still remember the importance of gramma, you might want ot share with us common folks  :
1. why is gramm not taught in schools now ? There must be a reason for EMB to justify this decision ?
2. how you mastered the rules, frustrations and secrets ?
3. you surely would not suggest young kids now to look for the gramma books you used back then ?

If I sound too intrusive, I apologize for my English incompetence...

support!

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原帖由 oldfella 於 2006-9-11 05:54 PM 發表
Since you guys are the very few who can still remember the importance of gramma, you might want ot share with us common folks  :
1. why is gramm not taught in schools now ? There must be a reason  ...

Hi Brother Oldfella,

Welcome to join in.  Though we are old fellas, we are still young at heart and behaviour.  Sure, we don't have hard feelings on any comments and criticism.

"The definition of Grammar includes a set of rules making a prescription for the proper use of the language. Nevertheless, language usage is not a recipe and English usage has changed considerably.  These grammar rules tell us nothing about how people actually talk or write.  If you spoke or wrote according to the rules as found in grammar books, you would have the trouble being understood.

The BEM might have the conceptions that grammar was taught because it was a way for teachers of English to acquire professional status when the profession first emerged and there was any reason to believe this was an effective way to teach a language. They might opine that if you were speaking and writing early, you probably knew most of it by the time you were 4. "

The above may answer to your question (1).

As previously said by most of the readers in this forum, it is beyond doubt that grammar is the foundation of the usage of English.

Since English is not our mother language, knowing its grammar is the only way to master our spoken and written English efficiently and accurately in our daily life.

For one, i surely would suggest and encourage young kids to read grammar books as an extra-curricular activiity to develop and enhance their proficiency in Egnlish.

I am sure the other fellas may wish to answer the other parts of your questions.

Cheers

Dear Brother Oldfella,

I cannot remember when EMB implemented its policy of eliminating teaching English Grammar in local schools as I have already casted my no-confidence vote to the authorities since 1990 by sending my two children to study abroad.

At my primary education, I studied at government primary school and had my first English book at P.3 . I still remembered now how it looked then. It was a colourful story book named "John and Mary" being taught in Great Britain at that time.

But my memory was blurred as to when I started being taught English Grammar. As far as I can remember, English Grammar was taught throughout my 5-year secondary education. I did not read too many books or magazines outside school curiculum.

It was after I have started to work that I became aware of the importance of writing and speaking correct English. I then put into practice of the following simple method :

IPUT - read as many articles and as frequent as I want to;

SAVE TO MEMORY - memorize as many words, phrases, clauses, sentences and nicely written articles as I can;

OUTPUT - from my memory, search for appropriate  words, phrases, clauses and sentences , put them in my writings.

Unfortunately, there are always problems with RAMs in my memory and output mechanism somewhere inside my body that either the materials stored just fade away and cannot be restored or the searching mechanism in findling appropriate wordings simply fails frequently. As a result, my output is generally not satisfactory ! Therefore, please excuse me, brothers !  

The educational authority did not eliminate grammar teaching altogether in
the 1980s. Rather, it advocated communicative language teaching and
teaching grammar for the purpose of communication. This might have been
wrongly interpreted as doing away with grammar teaching by various parties
including certain schools and teachers.


Personally, I remember starting  reading English novels back in P.3.
I began with 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' at a time when a TV drama series featuring
the strife between the North and the South of the U.S.A. culminating in the
Civil War was broadcast. Teachers at school had us read books like
Tom Sawyer and I also became a fan of Agatha Christie, the Queen of Crime. Remember the movies Murder on the Orient Express and
Death on the Nile? Teachers also did a good job getting us to learn a
whole host of proverbs and 'collective nouns'. I should thank my P.5 Chinese
and English teacher for her phonics drills...

Grammar learning remains important. I would recommend studying with
established texts like the latest editions of English Grammar in Use (the
current edition has even got a bonus CD) and Practical English Usage. While I
acquired sentence structures in my teens largely through reading English, the books Practical English Grammar and Practical English Usage helped cleared
many confusions I had about grammar and usage when I was at Lower Six.
When I graduated from college, my first job involved a lot of English writing
and the COBUILD came in very useful.
Sorry for not delivering my ideas in unity as I was sharing my thoughts and
memories about learning English as they came to mind...

[ 本帖最後由 白貓兒 於 2006-9-13 05:57 AM 編輯 ]

Thanks for all your suggestions and experience sharing. They are all very inspiring. Learners can use whichever ways they find most suitable for them.

The Educationa Department indeed "promoted" communicative approach at that time. But the problem was grammar teaching and exercises without context were discouraged. Most grammar books were not contextualized but just rules and exercises. As a result, teachers who were not prepared to do thextra work just stopped teaching grammar. And English standared lowered.

One more point I am not really sure of : grammar should come after extensive reading for checking structures we are not sure about, not before. The number of rules related to the use of articles may be well over 100 and it is simply impossible to learn a language just by rules.

I always see HK students memorized a lot of grammar but unable to write without error within the given exam time. Any opinion ?

'grammar should come after extensive reading for checking structures we are not sure about'

I agree. With extensive (and intensive reading), you develop 'mental
grammar'. Explicit grammar work helps to consolidate mental grammar.

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-25 12:10 PM 發表


Hi brother dd05ng,

In spite of my white hair and my hair-line being pushed more and more backwards than before, I have not considered myself being an old man until you and brother neiahyeah ...

It was very well said, and I would like to join and follow your good deeds to help whenever the occasion deems feasible and appropriate.



You have such a right attitude towards helping our younger generation on their less than satisfactory written English that is very touching indeed.

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原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-9-16 21:57 發表

It was very well said, and I would like to join and follow your good deeds to help whenever the occasion deems feasible and appropriate.



You have such a right attitude  ...

Welcome on board then ...