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標題: Gramma is important [打印本頁]

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-20 10:22 標題: Gramma is important

When we were young, we learnt gramma in school. Since 1973, if i remember right, schools started not to teach gramma and the English level of the students dropped gradually. Our Grade D in English is much much better than those Grade B or C nowadays.Therefore I reckon that gramma books are essential.

作者: busman 時間: 2006-8-20 11:28

Yes. Grammar is important. I am younger than you and I know that your generantion's english is better than I. This is related to the Syllabus. Now, the student's vocabulary is lack. They exam syllabus A. It is much much easiler than 70's. The langauge policy is great influence the students english level. I study the Cert level with English textbook and use Cantonese teach. So, I can read but listening and oral are weak. Now, the most students use Chinese and Cantonese. Reading is weak. If we want the student have better english, using English textbook to study is better.

作者: 炮艇工兵 時間: 2006-8-20 12:12

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作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-20 17:26

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-20 02:22 AM 發表
When we were young, we learnt gramma in school. Since 1973, if i remember right, schools started not to teach gramma and the English level of the students dropped gradually. Our Grade D in English ...

For your information, it is not "schools started not to teach gramma ..." but Education Department implemented a change in teaching English of dropping grammar and emphasising on the use of conversational English instead.

Who is to blame ... the Education Department

作者: 大田英明 時間: 2006-8-20 17:27

This is a casual forum and everybody is supposed to feel free to express himself/herself in English, so please don't mind making mistakes and you will not be "corrected" at once unless requested is received...

Of course, Chinlish and ICQlish are still highly discouraged right here...

I also made a mistake...!!

[ 本帖最後由大田英明於 2006-8-20 10:29 PM 編輯 ]

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-20 17:34

引用:

原帖由 大田英明 於 2006-8-20 09:27 AM 發表
This is a casual forum and everybody is supposed to feel free to express himself/herself in English, so please don't mind to make mistakes and you will not be "corrected" at once unless r ...

版主大田英明英明 .....

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-21 02:45 標題: 回復 #4 taurus 的帖子

Understood and concurred.
Westerners never learn gramma because English is their mother-tongue but we are not.
Any suggestions to help the nowadays students to beef up their English standard?
I think, gramma is the foundation of it. I suggest parents should encourage their children to read gramma books and learn how they work.

作者: spawn 時間: 2006-8-21 08:07

Watch "

earl" and read lots of story books(e.g. short story, comics,etc.,). & Yes, do not leave out "Harry Potter" !

作者: HeHaHoHey 時間: 2006-8-21 12:54

Reading (good books) is the best way to learn

作者: 有性格 時間: 2006-8-21 19:53

I had my seconardary schoollife in 1980's. As far as I can recall, there was no official lesson for us to learn English Grammar until Form Four. In Form Four, Our teachers taught us some English Grammar in the Lessons in order to fulfill the requirements in HKCEE syllabus B. We were also asked to buy and read a book something called 'English Grammar' published by ELBS. Actually, it was a good book and I treated it as a Bible accompanying me to pass through the journey of HKCEE.

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-22 05:54

Does any body know if the book " A pen and a man ... " is still being used as English textbook in primary school ...

作者: FOX 時間: 2006-8-22 12:12

d-graded or grade d? which one is correct or both?

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-22 13:38

引用:

原帖由 FOX 於 2006-8-22 12:12 發表
d-graded or grade d? which one is correct or both?

Without a sentence and considering from only words, grade d is correct ...

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-22 16:22 標題: 回復 #9 HeHaHoHey 的帖子

Your version saw the importance of Gramma......for good English

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-22 16:25 標題: 回復 #10 有性格的帖子

You must be an oldie.... I studied "a pen and a man... this is a pen and this is a man..." more than 50 years ago.

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-22 16:28 標題: 回復 #10 有性格的帖子

Your version saw the importance of Gramma....for good English

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-22 16:28 標題: 回復 #11 taurus 的帖子

You must be an oldie.... I studied "a pen and a man... this is a pen and this is a man..." more than 50 years ago.

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-23 06:59

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-22 16:28 發表
You must be an oldie.... I studied "a pen and a man... this is a pen and this is a man..." more than 50 years ago.

Correct, absolutely correct ...

I may be old but still feel young at heart, haha ...

作者: takbo 時間: 2006-8-24 13:46

引用:

原帖由 HeHaHoHey 於 2006-8-21 12:54 PM 發表
Reading (good books) is the best way to learn

Watching DVD is also helpful. We can select the English sub-title to help our listening. If don't undertstand, simply just re-play the section.

作者: Jenny 時間: 2006-8-24 17:38

The best way to improve one's English (or any other language for that matter) is by speaking it. Grammar is important, but if you're a fluent English speaker then most of the grammer just comes naturally.

作者: dd05ng 時間: 2006-8-24 20:17

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-21 09:54 PM 發表
Does any body know if the book " A pen and a man ... " is still being used as English textbook in primary school ...

Ha Ha! Those were the days!!

I can still remember the text :
"A man. A pan.
A man and a pan. This is a man. This is a pan.
The man is holding the pan.
What is the man holding? The man is holding the pan."

The picture actually shows a Malay holding a frying pan (or may be a wok).

The book was used by primary schools in British colonies in Asia in early 60s or perhaps late 50s as well.

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-24 22:55

引用:

原帖由 dd05ng 於 2006-8-24 20:17 發表

Ha Ha! Those were the days!!

I can still remember the text :
"A man. A pan.
A man and a pan. This is a man. This is a pan.
The man is holding the pan.
What is the man holding? ...

Thank you brother dd05ng ...

You have a good memory or you may still have this book now ...

This book was used by a majority of primary schools in late 50s and early 60s while we used another typical English book, John & Mary, in government primary schools.

Yes, those were the days when we were too young to understand all kind of problems in life ... cheers to that...

作者: dd05ng 時間: 2006-8-25 01:50

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-24 02:55 PM 發表

Thank you brother dd05ng ...

You have a good memory or you may still have this book now ...

This book was used by a majority of primary schools in late 50s and early 60s ...

I haven't got the book - it's many many years ago!!

My memory is not good neither. These few sentences are all I can remember. Perhaps it's because I'd studied this book in three different schools. The first time was when I did my Primary 2 in a private school. Then I moved to a government primary school the year after. But I had to do P2 again because I was too young for a P3 class. So I studied this book again in P3 in the government primary school. (I remember that they did not teach English in P2 in government primary school during that time). Then during the summer in between P3 and P4, I went to attent an evening English course. The course was for adults and they used this same book as the main text. There were only a few kids in the class, among 20-30 adults. I actually spent only a few days in the course and didn't turn up again. But that's already good enough to force me to memorize these few sentences.

You're right, those were the days when we were too young to understand all kinds of problems in life. I could still remember those people who went to attend the evening class after spending 10+ hours in their workplaces in day time - they were so eager to learn. In contrast, the 2-3 kids in the class (including myself) just kept wandering around in the playground and then disappeared after a few classes..

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-25 07:52

Hi brother dd05ng,

There's a lot that we can talk about those good old days.

I started to study English at P.3 with a very nicely printed English story book "John & Mary". I have not come across "A Pen and A Man" then.

I was really serious in studying English when I was in my secondary schooling at a Taiwanese English secondary school standing notably opposite to China Light & Power at Argyle street.

My the then school master implemented a weekly lesson of English recitation in all classes from Form 1 to Form 5. His experience told him that it was an effective way to learn English well for Chinese students.

So, throughout all those 5 years of my secondary schooling, all students in a class had to be prepared to be picked to recite a piece of English essay chosen in advance by the teacher, the school master himself.

I would not my English is good but I worked for two foreign companies for almost 25 years and did not encounter difficulty in our daily communication.

Since I have longer leisure now than in the past, I like to share my past experience with everybody here.

I think brother dd05ng will not be different !

Welcome aboard and cheers to that ...

作者: Paolo336 時間: 2006-8-25 11:49 標題: 回復 #24 taurus 的帖子

I strongly agree with your point that recitation is good. It helps not only learning English but also improving the way of speaking.

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-25 13:14 標題: 回復 #24 taurus 的帖子

Hi Brothers taurus & dd05ng,

We are the oldies and we do have somethings in common, for sure.
I would very much like to share the past experience, either in school or society, with anybody here.

Taurus, I suppose, we studied in the same school . Perhaps, we had had kicked up rows before as most of us were teddy boys with waxed protruding hair style. We didn't use school-bags in secondary schooling; we carried those thick and heavy textbooks, e.g. Arithmatics, Physics, Biology and etc., in our hands exhibiting our supremacy in school.

Recitation and unseen dictation were the must in the class but i hated them because I never got a pass. Maybe the teacher had picked on me since I was the most naughty guy and trouble-maker.

I enjoyed those school days since there were few distractions. Life was simple and happy though hard. The 'Ting Dong Song" is my favourite but the school song was rather boring...lol

So long, cheers.

作者: dd05ng 時間: 2006-8-25 16:44

Brother taurus and brother eiahyeah

Yes. We are the old ones in this forum.

In school, my English standard was only about average. I think we had a better English learning environment (in terms of software) during our time. We (students, parents, and teachers) were more determined and better motivated. Our mindset, during those days, was that one had to do better in English if one wanted to get into a better school and then a better job. In primary school, we had to learn Grammar and that formed the solid foundation. For non-English speakers, learning Grammar is a very useful approach to understand the characteristics and constuction of the language.

During the 50s-70s, most of the young people watched western movies, listened to pop songs. I was able to pick up quite a bit of vocabulary and pronunciation through the lyrics of songs by the Beatles, Bee Gees, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Peter Paul and Mary, ..... From movies, I still remember how I learned to pronounce "the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain" from My Fair Lady.

In terms of hardware (especially information and communciations technology), the English learning environment should be much much better nowadays. The problem is, as I see it, young people in Hong Kong are in general lack of themotivation and determination to improve their English (and even Chinese). They do not have the desire to communicate with others using proper English (or Chinese). They watch Cantonese movies, listen to Cantonese songs. What's worse is that most of the lyrics and conversations are not proper language. They wrote SMS, ICQ, again, not in proper language. From time to time, I feel miserable whenever I have to read letters/emails/reports written by the local university graduates. In contrast, young people in the Mainland are more determinated and highly motivated to learn English.

The government, the Education authority in particular, has to be responsible for this crisis. They have been trying hard to convince Hong Kong people that using our mother tongue as the media of learning is a better approach. I am sure, in the case of Hong Kong, it is definitely the best approach to produce a bunch of school leavers who can neither write nor speak English and Chinese properly. Lots of kids are actually proud of being illiterate, because this is how their idols and peer group behave.

Well, I have been talking too much (typing too much), it is the old age syndrome

Cheers. Have a nice weekend.

[ 本帖最後由 dd05ng 於 2006-8-25 09:08 AM 編輯 ]

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-25 19:47

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-25 13:14 發表
Hi Brothers taurus & dd05ng,

We are the oldies and we do have somethings in common, for sure.
I would very much like to share the past experience, either in school or society, with anybody ...

Hi neiahyeah,

Having read your message I have a strong feeling of meeting old friend and am sure you know which school I have referred to. Yes, teddy boys, tight-sleeve trousers and strapped text-books were popular by then.

I had a collection of all Beatles long-play plastic discs which were unfortunately lost through changes of my residence.

You are now doing very well with your English ! Let's see how we can keep up this lively exchange of messages to hopefully encourage more members of this forum to join in !

Cheers to this in advance ...

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-25 20:10

引用:

原帖由 dd05ng 於 2006-8-25 16:44 發表
Brother taurus and brother eiahyeah

Yes. We are the old ones in this forum.

In school, my English standard was only about average. I think we had a better English learning environment (in ter ...

Hi brother dd05ng,

In spite of my white hair and my hair-line being pushed more and more backwards than before, I have not considered myself being an old man until you and brother neiahyeah brought it up. Just like Clinton said recently " I hate being sixty ..." even though I'm not yet sixty, still many many weeks to go.

Five hundred miles, five hundred miles, five hundred miles, five hundred miles, Lord I walked five hundred miles away from home .... simple lyrics like these with the sound of strumming guitar chords were favourites in a lazy holiday afternoon.

To be fair, let's not criticize our younger generation that much because they are in fact the victim of this century. Let's take a constructive and positive approach to help answering their questions with our best ...

作者: happycamel 時間: 2006-8-25 20:45

May I join in? Brother Taurus, if you don;t mind me calling you so.

作者: MovieMonster 時間: 2006-8-25 21:07

Grammar had been taught years ago even to school children in England, remember the various grammar schools. There are complains from employers, university lecturers on poor English from younger persons in UK. To teach or not to teach grammar? Grammatically correct English is of course important, that is not doubt about that. The argument is on how to achieve that desirable standard.

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-25 22:21 標題: 回復 #29 taurus 的帖子

Hi brother TAURUS.

"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to Brother Taurus, happy birthday to you..."

The party was held in the hall of St. John ...we used to celebrate our birthdays or seasonal holidays by holding parties on private premises. We needed to take the pick-up, plastic discs, drinks and decorations to the venue.. of course our partner...hmmmm... but the most important and exciting aim was we could meet many lovely gals ....maybe your best half...

.

I am just on the wrong side of 60.

Don't you think we were classmates?

Anyway best wishes to you on your birthday and Long Live Brother Taurus

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-26 08:39

引用:

原帖由 happycamel 於 2006-8-25 20:45 發表
May I join in? Brother Taurus, if you don;t mind me calling you so.

Come on brother happycamel, let's be casual and drop all kinds of formality in this forum, you're by all means welcome and , in fact, anybody and everybody, are welcome ...

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-26 08:47

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-25 22:21 發表
Hi brother TAURUS.

"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to Brother Taurus, happy birthday to you..."

The party was held in the hall of St. John .. ...

What's happening ?

I enjoy a party as well as the last part of your sentence but I'm afraid I'm unfortunately not your classmate. Even so, it does not affect the friendship we have built through exchange of our feelings and memories. Let's keep it up, brother neiahyeah ...

By the way, my name tells you when I was born ... ha ha ... no secret la

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-26 08:50

引用:

原帖由 MovieMonster 於 2006-8-25 21:07 發表
Grammar had been taught years ago even to school children in England, remember the various grammar schools. There are complains from employers, university lecturers on poor English from younger pe ...

I wonder when our Chief Executive visited to Singapore, did he explore whether English grammar was taught in schools there or elsewhere in other countries ? Can anybody tell us ?

作者: koolaar 時間: 2006-8-30 15:13

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-26 12:50 AM 發表

I wonder when our Chief Executive visited to Singapore, did he explore whether English grammar was taught in schools there or elsewhere in other countries ? Can anybody tell us ?

I don't know either. But, in my opinion, the teaching of English grammar is most important to all students learning English, since they will learn that set of rules describing the structure of English language and controlling the way how English sentences are properly formed.

作者: SKT174 時間: 2006-8-31 06:53

Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school. I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical errors without knowing it.

作者: koolaar 時間: 2006-8-31 11:24

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-30 10:53 PM 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school. I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

May I?

引用:

Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended the high school there. I can speak day-to-day English fluently, but I would probably make a lot of grammatical mistakes when it comes down to business-letter writing, and the like.

作者: SKT174 時間: 2006-8-31 11:56

引用:

原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-8-31 15:24 發表

May I?

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-31 13:36

引用:

原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-8-31 11:24 AM 發表

May I?

May I?

QUOTE:

I attended the high school in NZ when Grammar wasn't taught . I can speak day-to-day English fluently but I would probably make a lot of grammatical mistakes when writing business letters and the like.

No hard feeling

作者: Luar 時間: 2006-8-31 16:23

Dear all,

I am new to this forum and have been following your frankly discussions with great joy.

For some reasons, I have got the feelings that a lot of people in Hong Kong reject the use of English simply for convenience reason.

My experience in mastering a foreign language is that one has to think the language and incorporate it in his / her daily life.  One has to practise it if he/she really wishes to improve the proficiency of the language.

The other day, I was discussing with a friend from Hawaii about speaking English.  We shared the views that everywhere people speak with an accent and one's command of English should not be judged on the basis of his accent.  Yet, what makes Chinese speaking people difficult to speak fluent English is that the Chinese and English languages belong to two distinctive linguistic tribes and that processing of the two languages is likely to overtax the speakers' fluency, resulting in sharp punctuations among words as our brains are accustomed to learn and speak Chinese from the very beginning of our life.  I suppose the same problem of fluency applies to many non-native English speakers, particularly people in Asia whose languages are spoken in a way so much different from the languages in Europe.

There is no way and no need to correct one's accent as I consider it a reflection of the cultural background of the speaker.  With respect to the matter of fluency, I would like to make the following suggestions and hope that they are of any help to those who encounter tremendous problems in speaking English:

- do not feel panic, speak slowly and try to maintain the flow;
- think English before and during the speech : allow a few seconds to think of the key words / idea in English before you start a sentence.  Your thoughts should always be ahead of your speech;
- waltzing with your words in a flow, do not make a sudden stop as this is quite often when speaking Chinese;
- listen to how native English speakers make presentation and see what you can learn from them; and, last but not the least,
- practise it as much as possible.

Do not feel embarrassed when you make mistakes.  Everybody makes mistakes.  I make a lot of grammatical mistakes too.

Luar

[ 本帖最後由 Luar 於 2006-8-31 04:30 PM 編輯 ]

作者: leehoma 時間: 2006-8-31 16:42

For younger students, developing a good reading habit is more important than grammar.

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-31 18:19

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-31 06:53 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school. I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

Yes, you are very correct, brother SKT174 ...

Without grammar as a foundation of your language, you will STILL be able to manage conversation without problem because body language will help in this type of communication.

But when you sit down to write, it is a different matter.

Sometimes, the vice versa is also true. Some people can write very well but may have difficulty in expressing themselves by words of mouth.

It's hard to be perfect in all respect, unfortunately !

[ 本帖最後由 taurus 於 2006-8-31 10:05 PM 編輯 ]

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-31 22:01

引用:

原帖由 Luar 於 2006-8-31 04:23 PM 發表
Dear all,

I am new to this forum and have been following your frankly discussions with great joy.

For some reasons, I have got the feelings that a lot of people in Hong Kong reject the use of ...

Hi Brother Luar

Welcome to join in.  What you write is precise and laconic.

I have been engaged in the use of English language for years and i opine:

First, only about 2000 different words are required for our daily conversation and communication. The mastery of those words will sure make us masters of correct speaking and writing.  Nobody ever use all the words in the dictionary.

Second, I reckon that simple English is good English. It is ignorant to use big words or complicated sentences when simple ones will answer the same purpose. Most the famous speakers and writers do use simple words and sentences.

Third, the most important thing is that the foundamental principles of Gramma must be mastered otherwise we may be making conspicuous blunders while thinking we are speaking or writing with the utmost accuracy.

Fourth and so on...  what you have mentioned are correct and most useful.

In the nutshell, since English is not our mother language and we have little knowledge of thier culture, dont expect we could speak or write as good as the real McCoy though we have tried our best.

Ciao

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-31 22:18

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-31 22:01 發表

Hi Brother Luar

Welcome to join in. What you write is precise and laconic.

I have been engaged in the use of English language for years and i opine:

First, only about 2000 differe ...

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Neiahyeah,

Seeing you saying ciao, so I greet you in Italian ! That's all I know ... haha ...

Arrivederci, ciao !

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-8-31 22:42

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-31 10:18 PM 發表

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Neiahyeah,

Seeing you saying ciao, so I greet you in Italian ! That's all I know ... haha ...

Arrivederci, ciao !

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Taurus

Arrivederci, ciao

I dont know Italian but I am sure my return is correct,

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-8-31 23:02

引用:

原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-31 22:42 發表

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Taurus

Arrivederci, ciao

I dont know Italian but I am sure my return is correct, :

Hi Brother Neiahyeah,

You REALLY is full of wisdom !

Both Buon giorno & Buona sera are greetings, in Chinese 你好嗎. Buon giorno is used in the morning whereas Buona sera is used in the evening.

For the time being, I try to stay away from strangers in the afternoon because I don't know how to greet them ... haha

作者: y2ksagittarius 時間: 2006-9-2 06:39

i think it is good to have someone that speaks english natively to be our primary school or even kindergarten teacher, and make it compulsory for students to converse in english for a certain number of hours. (this is to build up a english environment for the younger generations)

parents play a very important part too, i believe that one can lose a language by not using it frequently, let alone learning it.

作者: 炮艇工兵 時間: 2006-9-4 07:45

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-9-4 08:27

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-31 06:53 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school. I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

Hi Brother SKT174,

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

As our mother tongue "Cantonese", we do not have to study Cantonese Grammar as well.

But English as a second language to us or to anybody, I cannot imagine how one can use the language without knowing its grammar.

Take, for example, French or Italian or even Spanish, you can learn a few day-to-day short sentences or even only words to help you while you are there as a tourist. But to use them to express yourself in writing, I really cannot imagine how it will work.

So, we know in NZ that Grammar is not taught as school.

Thanks again to Brother SKT174. Otherwise, it will be difficult to know situation like this !

作者: oldfella 時間: 2006-9-10 18:38

Unexpectedly bumped into this thread and see a few old nostalgic guys chatting happily, without knowing that their long windedness has scared away those younger ones who are in desperate need of help...

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-9-11 00:32

引用:

原帖由 oldfella 於 2006-9-10 18:38 發表
Unexpectedly bumped into this thread and see a few old nostalgic guys chatting happily, without knowing that their long windedness has scared away those younger ones who are in desperate need of he ...

Thank you Brother Oldfella for your reminder. I hope we have not done it yet. We start a fire here to share its warmth with every visitor.

Welcome on board !

[ 本帖最後由 taurus 於 2006-9-11 01:12 AM 編輯 ]

作者: oldfella 時間: 2006-9-11 17:54

Since you guys are the very few who can still remember the importance of gramma, you might want ot share with us common folks :
1. why is gramm not taught in schools now ? There must be a reason for EMB to justify this decision ?
2. how you mastered the rules, frustrations and secrets ?
3. you surely would not suggest young kids now to look for the gramma books you used back then ?

If I sound too intrusive, I apologize for my English incompetence...

作者: rasoplast 時間: 2006-9-12 04:21 標題: Grammar is indeed important

support!

作者: neiahyeah 時間: 2006-9-12 14:02

引用:

原帖由 oldfella 於 2006-9-11 05:54 PM 發表
Since you guys are the very few who can still remember the importance of gramma, you might want ot share with us common folks :
1. why is gramm not taught in schools now ? There must be a reason ...

Hi Brother Oldfella,

Welcome to join in. Though we are old fellas, we are still young at heart and behaviour. Sure, we don't have hard feelings on any comments and criticism.

"The definition of Grammar includes a set of rules making a prescription for the proper use of the language. Nevertheless, language usage is not a recipe and English usage has changed considerably. These grammar rules tell us nothing about how people actually talk or write. If you spoke or wrote according to the rules as found in grammar books, you would have the trouble being understood.

The BEM might have the conceptions that grammar was taught because it was a way for teachers of English to acquire professional status when the profession first emerged and there was any reason to believe this was an effective way to teach a language. They might opine that if you were speaking and writing early, you probably knew most of it by the time you were 4. "

The above may answer to your question (1).

As previously said by most of the readers in this forum, it is beyond doubt that grammar is the foundation of the usage of English.

Since English is not our mother language, knowing its grammar is the only way to master our spoken and written English efficiently and accurately in our daily life.

For one, i surely would suggest and encourage young kids to read grammar books as an extra-curricular activiity to develop and enhance their proficiency in Egnlish.

I am sure the other fellas may wish to answer the other parts of your questions.

Cheers

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-9-13 09:18 標題: Response to Brother Oldfella's post #53

Dear Brother Oldfella,

I cannot remember when EMB implemented its policy of eliminating teaching English Grammar in local schools as I have already casted my no-confidence vote to the authorities since 1990 by sending my two children to study abroad.

At my primary education, I studied at government primary school and had my first English book at P.3 . I still remembered now how it looked then. It was a colourful story book named "John and Mary" being taught in Great Britain at that time.

But my memory was blurred as to when I started being taught English Grammar. As far as I can remember, English Grammar was taught throughout my 5-year secondary education. I did not read too many books or magazines outside school curiculum.

It was after I have started to work that I became aware of the importance of writing and speaking correct English. I then put into practice of the following simple method :

IPUT - read as many articles and as frequent as I want to;

SAVE TO MEMORY - memorize as many words, phrases, clauses, sentences and nicely written articles as I can;

OUTPUT - from my memory, search for appropriate words, phrases, clauses and sentences , put them in my writings.

Unfortunately, there are always problems with RAMs in my memory and output mechanism somewhere inside my body that either the materials stored just fade away and cannot be restored or the searching mechanism in findling appropriate wordings simply fails frequently. As a result, my output is generally not satisfactory ! Therefore, please excuse me, brothers !

作者: 白貓兒 時間: 2006-9-13 12:44

The educational authority did not eliminate grammar teaching altogether in
the 1980s. Rather, it advocated communicative language teaching and
teaching grammar for the purpose of communication. This might have been
wrongly interpreted as doing away with grammar teaching by various parties
including certain schools and teachers.

Personally, I remember starting reading English novels back in P.3.
I began with 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' at a time when a TV drama series featuring
the strife between the North and the South of the U.S.A. culminating in the
Civil War was broadcast. Teachers at school had us read books like
Tom Sawyer and I also became a fan of Agatha Christie, the Queen of Crime. Remember the movies Murder on the Orient Express and
Death on the Nile? Teachers also did a good job getting us to learn a
whole host of proverbs and 'collective nouns'. I should thank my P.5 Chinese
and English teacher for her phonics drills...

Grammar learning remains important. I would recommend studying with
established texts like the latest editions of English Grammar in Use (the
current edition has even got a bonus CD) and Practical English Usage. While I
acquired sentence structures in my teens largely through reading English, the books Practical English Grammar and Practical English Usage helped cleared
many confusions I had about grammar and usage when I was at Lower Six.
When I graduated from college, my first job involved a lot of English writing
and the COBUILD came in very useful.
Sorry for not delivering my ideas in unity as I was sharing my thoughts and
memories about learning English as they came to mind...

[ 本帖最後由白貓兒於 2006-9-13 05:57 AM 編輯 ]

作者: oldfella 時間: 2006-9-14 19:43

Thanks for all your suggestions and experience sharing. They are all very inspiring. Learners can use whichever ways they find most suitable for them.

The Educationa Department indeed "promoted" communicative approach at that time. But the problem was grammar teaching and exercises without context were discouraged. Most grammar books were not contextualized but just rules and exercises. As a result, teachers who were not prepared to do thextra work just stopped teaching grammar. And English standared lowered.

One more point I am not really sure of : grammar should come after extensive reading for checking structures we are not sure about, not before. The number of rules related to the use of articles may be well over 100 and it is simply impossible to learn a language just by rules.

I always see HK students memorized a lot of grammar but unable to write without error within the given exam time. Any opinion ?

作者: 白貓兒 時間: 2006-9-14 23:40

'grammar should come after extensive reading for checking structures we are not sure about'

I agree. With extensive (and intensive reading), you develop 'mental
grammar'. Explicit grammar work helps to consolidate mental grammar.

作者: koolaar 時間: 2006-9-16 21:57

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-25 12:10 PM 發表

Hi brother dd05ng,

In spite of my white hair and my hair-line being pushed more and more backwards than before, I have not considered myself being an old man until you and brother neiahyeah ...

It was very well said, and I would like to join and follow your good deeds to help whenever the occasion deems feasible and appropriate.

You have such a right attitude towards helping our younger generation on their less than satisfactory written English that is very touching indeed.

作者: taurus 時間: 2006-9-16 22:09

引用:

原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-9-16 21:57 發表

It was very well said, and I would like to join and follow your good deeds to help whenever the occasion deems feasible and appropriate.

You have such a right attitude ...

Welcome on board then ...

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