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標題: 一樁以色列學者懷疑聖經是否真有其事的報導 [打印本頁]

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-6 07:07 標題: 一樁以色列學者懷疑聖經是否真有其事的報導

         中國時報依據法新社 28 日從耶路撒冷發出是電訊，指出台拉維夫大學教授赫佐格，也是著名以色列考古學家，發表質疑聖經故事的真實性論文。

      他們經過 70 載的挖掘，使大多數考古學家認為，聖經記載的若干事情從未發生過，如今更清楚的也是更難令人接受的事實是，強大的大衛及其所羅門的帝國，充其量只是一個極小的部落。(這些論點已經衝擊著猶太人歷史的根本)

　　赫佐格的文章提及雖然此種看法很難令一般信徒人接受，但是研究人員都很清楚，以色列人並未到過埃及，也並未穿越沙漠，更沒有在軍事行動中佔領迦南地，也未劃分為十二個支派。
　　
      在觀點方面,有著極大的時代意義，它是前瞻的、正確的、劃時代的、廿一世紀的中心思想。

      可惜，現今各地人民，能真正體會到的實在是少數。

      難怪國父孫中山先生說：人分為三種，即「先知先覺者、後知後覺者、不知不覺者」，其中「先知先覺者佔最少數，大多數為後知與不知之人。
　　
            人應有前瞻性，然而能有智慧了解的人實在不多，UFO 研究如此、超心理學研究亦是如此、宗教新研究更是如此。

　　    在國內外研究聖經的學者實是不少，但是大部份國內外宗教學者都是在框框內以膚淺表相的方法去研究宗教。

         曾經有位「台灣宗教學會」理事也是某大學教授級人士談到研究宗教的方法，他們認為「學術」要客觀不可以涉入主觀經驗，所以他們只研究社會上的宗教現象，不去研究宗教帶來的心靈內層及神秘體驗，他說那不是「宗教學」而是「神秘學」。

　　    那人們只有嘆氣部份，如此能成大器嗎？研究佛教道教者如此，研究聖經者更是以一部聖經做表面研究，甚至神職人員完全以「信仰一個上帝」的先入為主思想在讀聖經，能正確嗎？
　　
         如今以色列台拉維夫大學教授提出令聖經信徒震驚的新觀點，我們要用什麼看法來重新看聖經？

         有多少人不知道聖經中找不到耶穌 13 歲到 30 歲之間人生中最精彩的 18 年的記載，他到何處去了？事實上是到東方印度、西藏訪學佛教教義，這是美國宗教學者數年前的研究，在一些書中亦有專題報導。

然而聖經信徒會承認他們信仰的耶穌竟然是學佛的人嗎？
　　
想想吧，腦筋未開的人呀！

[ 本帖最後由 khadafy 於 2010-3-8 07:33 編輯 ]

作者: 花之慶次 時間: 2010-3-7 05:58

呀哥仔你係唔係寫錯字????

一樁以色列學者懷疑聖經是否真有其事的報"度"
應該係"導"字呀

作者: ali 時間: 2010-3-7 20:25

請問原文在那裡？我入 jpost.com 搵唔到篇文，有台拉維夫大學教授赫佐格名字的原文字寫法嗎？
原文應該冇提孫大炮呀？

呀孫大炮當年要破除迷信，叫人唔好拜神拜佛，仲把某廟內菩薩的手折斷，但佢自己又走去信耶穌。

孫大炮說：人分為三種，即「先知先覺者、後知後覺者、不知不覺者」，
其中「先知先覺者佔最少數，大多數為後知與不知之人。

我ali就話：人亦有另三種，即「先知不覺者、後知醒覺者、不覺須知者」，
其中「先知不覺者佔多數，後知醒覺者佔少少數，不覺須知之人佔少數。

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 07:35

引用:

原帖由 花之慶次 於 2010-3-7 05:58 發表
呀哥仔你係唔係寫錯字????

一樁以色列學者懷疑聖經是否真有其事的報"度"
應該係"導"字呀

唔好意思...花 Sir...即改,即改....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
ALi 兄.......
阿國父果D言詞呢...就係小的引用一下唧..唔好見笑..

致於原文...師兄可到以下網址參考一下...

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
http://www.tau.ac.il/humanities/archaeology/directory/dir_zeev_herzog.html

[ 本帖最後由 khadafy 於 2010-3-8 07:48 編輯 ]

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:01

以下...轉貼~誠惶誠恐兄04年的題目..thx!

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho: Who are the J
By Ze'ev Herzog

A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. - Bertrand de Juvenal

(from Ha'aretz Magazine, Friday, October 29, 1999)

Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells. http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/jerques.htm

In a September 22nd, 2002 speech to visiting Christian Zionists, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon asserted, "This land is ours... God gave us the title deeds..." However, recent scholarly research, including discoveries by an archaeological team from the University of Tel Aviv, not only deconstruct the Biblical Old Testament and Torah stories upon which this claim rests, but grant previously unthinkable credence to an ancient historian's claim that the Israelites of Exodus were actually the Hyksos, and therefore of Asiatic origin.

To trace the foundations of this ongoing Biblical bonfire, we must go back to 1999.

All hell broke loose in Israel in November of that year when Prof. Ze'ev Herzog of Tel Aviv University announced: "the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander the desert, did not conquer the land, and did not pass it on to the twelve tribes". Moreover, the Jewish God YHWH had a female consort - the goddess Asherah!

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:02

His conclusion that the kingdom of David and Solomon was at best a small tribal monarchy, at worst total myth, has made enemies for him in the camps of traditional Jewish and Christian belief systems. He asserts: all evidence demonstrates that the Jews did not adopt monotheism until the 7th Century BCE - a heresy according to the Biblical tradition dating it to Moses at Mount Sinai.

Tel Aviv University's archaeological investigation at Megiddo and examination of the six-sided gate there dates it to the 9th Century BCE, not the 10th Century BCE claimed by the 1960's investigator Yigael Yadin who attributed it to Solomon. Herzog, moreover, states that Solomon and David are "entirely absent in the archaeological record".

In addition, Herzog's colleague, Israel Finkelstein, claims the Jews were nothing more than nomadic Canaanites who bartered with the city dwellers.

The team's studies concluded that Jerusalem did not have any central status until 722 BCE with the destruction of its northern rival Samaria.

However, the real bombshell is Herzog's discovery of numerous references to Yahweh having a consort in the form of Asherah. In_scriptions, written in Hebrew by official Jewish scribes in the 8th century BCE, were found in numerous sites all over the land. For Yahweh, supposedly the "One God", to have had a female consort and, of all people, the goddess Asherah, is dynamite of wide ranging significance.

But what does all this do to the validity of the "Title Deeds" from God that Ariel Sharon refers to? Quite apart from the obvious conclusion that the god assumed to have given the "promised land" to his chosen people was just one god from a pantheon and not the alleged monotheistic only God of the cosmos, Herzog's findings corroborate theories that have been "out there" for some time.

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:03

The Hyksos

Like Herzog, the historian Josephus (c. 37CE - c. 100CE) denied the account of the Hebrews being held in captivity in Egypt, but he went a drastic step further about the racial origins of the Jews, whom he identified with the Hyksos. He further claimed they did not flee from Egypt but were evicted due to them being leprous.

It must be said that Josephus has been vilified over the ages as a Roman collaborator by both Jewish and Christian scholars who have argued that the dating of the exodus of the "Hebrews" from Egypt in the Bible positively rules out their identification as Hyksos.

However, Jan Assmann, a prominent Egyptologist at Heidelberg University, is quite positive in his writings that the Exodus story is an inversion of the Hyksos expulsion and furthermore that Moses was an Egyptian.

Likewise, Donald P. Redford, of Toronto University, presents striking evidence that the Expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt was inverted to construct the exodus of the Hebrew slaves story in the Torah and Old Testament. His book, which argued this theory, "Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times" was Winner of the 1993 Best Scholarly Book in Archaeology Award of the Biblical Archaeological Society.

There is irrefutable evidence that the Hyksos, a mixed Semitic-Asiatic group who infiltrated the Nile valley, seized power in Lower Egypt in the 17th Century BCE. They ruled there from c. 1674 BCE until expelled when their capital, Avaris, fell to Ahmose around 1567 BCE.

The Hyksos in Egypt worshipped Set, who like ISH.KUR they identified as a storm deity.

Under the "inversion theory", Jewish scholars in the 7th Century BCE changed the story from "expelled" to "escaped" and as a further insult to their enemy, Ahmose, changed and miss-spelt his name to Moses, presenting him as leader of a Hebrew revolt. But there is also a strong possibility of two separate origins to the "Moses" character being merged into one, which I will come to later.

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:04

Ahmose's success in 1567 BCE led to the establishment of the 18th Dynasty in Egypt. ThotMoses III overthrew the transvestite Pharaoh Atchepsut, and under ThotMoses IV Egyptian conquests extended beyond the Sinai into Palestine, Syria, reaching Babylonia and included Canaan.

By the end of this expansion, Amenophis III (1380BCE) ruled an Egyptian empire whose provinces and colonies bordered what is now known as Turkey. This empire would have included the regions in which most of the expelled Hyksos now lived.

Amenophis IV succeeded the throne in 1353BCE. He established a new monotheism cult establishing "Aten" as the one supreme god and he changed his name to Akhenaton. Married to the mysterious Nefertiti, Akhenaton declared himself a god on earth, intermediary between the one-god Aten (Ra) and humanity, with his spouse as partner, effectively displacing Isis and Osiris in the Egyptian Enead.

Declaring all men to be the children of Aten, historians suspect Akhenaton planned an empire-wide religion. He banned all idolatry, the use of images to represent god, and banned the idea that there was more than one supreme god.

It is alongside Akhenaten and his father Amenophis III that we find the second Moses.

An important figure during this period was confusingly called Amenophis son of Hapu. He was First Minister (Vizier) to both kings. He is generally depicted as a scribe, crouching and holding on his knees a roll of papyrus. He more than anyone was responsible for authoring the religion in which the old gods were merged into one living god, Aten, who had been responsible for the creation of the Earth and of humanity.

The symbol of this god, the sun disk, represented Ra, Horus and the other gods in one. The sun disk, in symbolism, was supported between the horns of a bull. The Son of Hapu says this about creation: "I have come to you who reigns over the gods oh Amon, Lord of the Two Lands, for you are Re who appears in the sky, who illuminates the earth with a brilliantly shining eye, who came out of the Nou, who appeared above the primitive water, who created everything, who generated the great Enneade of the gods, who created his own flesh and gave birth to his own form."

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:04

The king's overseer of the land of Nubia was a certain Mermose (spelled both Mermose and Merymose on his sarcophagus in the British Museum). According to modern historians, in Amenhotep's third year as king, Mermose took his army far up the Nile, supposedly to quell a minor rebellion, but actually to secure gold mining territories which would supply his king with the greatest wealth of any ruler of Egypt.

Recent scholarship has indicated Mermose took his army to the neighborhood of the confluence of the Nile and Atbara Rivers and beyond.

But who was this Mermose? According to historian Dawn Breasted, the Greek translation of this name was Moses. Does Jewish tradition support this identification?

According to Jewish history not included in the Bible, Moses led the army of Pharaoh to the South, into the land of Kush, and reached the vicinity of the Atbara River. There he attracted the love of the princess of the fortress city of Saba, later Meroe. She gave up the city in exchange for marriage. Biblical confirmation of such a marriage is to be found in Numbers 12:1. "And Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman."

The archaeology of the Land of Israel is completing a process that amounts to a scientific revolution in its field. It is ready to confront the findings of biblical scholarship and of ancient history. But at the same time, we are witnessing a fascinating phenomenon in which all this is simply ignored by the Israeli public. Many of the findings mentioned here have been known for decades. The professional literature in the spheres of archaeology, Bible and the history of the Jewish people has addressed them in dozens of books and hundreds of articles. Even if not all the scholars accept the individual arguments that inform the examples I cited, the majority have adopted their main points.

Nevertheless, these revolutionary views are not penetrating the public consciousness. About a year ago, my colleague, the historian Prof. Nadav Ne'eman, published an article in the Culture and Literature section of Ha'aretz entitled "To Remove the Bible from the Jewish Bookshelf," but there was no public outcry. Any attempt to question the reliability of the biblical de_scriptions is perceived as an attempt to undermine "our historic right to the land" and as shattering the myth of the nation that is renewing the ancient Kingdom of Israel. These symbolic elements constitute such a critical component of the construction of the Israeli identity that any attempt to call their veracity into question encounters hostility or silence. It is of some interest that such tendencies within the Israeli secular society go hand-in-hand with the outlook among educated Christian groups. I have found a similar hostility in reaction to lectures I have delivered abroad to groups of Christian bible lovers, though what upset them was the challenge to the foundations of their fundamentalist religious belief.

It turns out that part of Israeli society is ready to recognize the injustice that was done to the Arab inhabitants of the country and is willing to accept the principle of equal rights for women - but is not up to adopting the archaeological facts that shatter the biblical myth. The blow to the mythical foundations of the Israeli identity is apparently too threatening, and it is more convenient to turn a blind eye. Ha'aretz., October 29, 1999

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-3-8 08:05

The Bible Unearthed
Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts

Is the Bible true? For the last hundred and fifty years a war has been waged over the historical reliability of the Hebrew _scriptures. Recent dramatic discoveries of biblical archaeology have cast serious doubt on the familiar account of ancient Israel and the origins of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Though the Bible credits Abraham as the first human to realize there is only one God, we now know that there is no evidence for monotheism for many centuries after the reported time of Abraham. Nor is there any archaeological evidence for the Exodus, for Joshua's conquest of Canaan, or for the vast "united monarchy" of David and Solomon.

In The Bible Unearthed two leading scholars, an archaeologist and a historian, combine a tour of the field of biblical archaeology with an explanation of how and why the Bible's historical saga differs so dramatically from the archaeological finds. They explain what the Bible says about ancient Israel and show how it diverges sharply from archaeological reality. They then offer a new version of the history of ancient Israel, bringing archaeological evidence to bear on the question of when, where, and why the Bible was first written.

As to why the answers are so new, Finkelstein and Silberman draw on evidence from decades of archaeological work and dozens of digs in Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria, to explain that the key early books of the Bible were first codified in the seventh century BCE, hundreds of years after the core events of the lives of the patriarchs, the Exodus from Egypt, and the conquest of Canaan were said to have taken place. Yet the ultimate message of The Bible Unearthed is not just a correction of the record, but an explanation of the origins of the Bible.

作者: ali 時間: 2010-3-9 01:49

引用:

原帖由 khadafy 於 2010-3-6 07:07 發表

中國時報依據法新社 28 日從耶路撒冷發出是電訊，指出台拉維夫大學教授赫佐格，也是著名以色列考古學家，發表質疑聖經故事的真實性論文。

係呢，尋日唔記得問埋，其實呢段新聞係幾時？28 日係何年何月的28日？
我初頭以為係上個月的 28 日。

作者: GREATHULK 時間: 2010-4-1 09:53

佛教是和平的宗教, 但基督教是很有侵略性的,所以我不相信耶酥有去学佛.

作者: GREATHULK 時間: 2010-4-1 09:54

佛教是和平的宗教, 但基督教是很有侵略性的,所以我不相信耶酥有去学佛.

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-4-1 10:17

引用:

原帖由 GREATHULK 於 2010-4-1 09:54 發表
佛教是和平的宗教, 但基督教是很有侵略性的,所以我不相信耶酥有去学佛.

現在具有侵略性的耶教,
是因旣得利益者,要保持其利益所在,
就要排除其它實在及潛在的可能破壞性,
於是就作出先發制人的道理教義..
其實在並不是2千多年前的耶穌見解....

作者: woaimimi 時間: 2010-4-8 17:36

跑来看看。呵呵，偶对这些没啥研究........

作者: 血魔 時間: 2010-4-9 20:18 標題: 回復 1# 的帖子

上校，國內的報章你都好信的
你要明白，國內是支持無神論的，見有個友仔，出個Post支持佢論點，
當然起晒摃
--------------------------夠有大把考古証據支持基督教是獨一的神，你又唔信，做人不要選擇性相信

------------------------同樣道理，佛教在釋家悟道後，連梵文正文，都沒有說過釋家成神成佛，成仙，
結界到了中國，變成有中國特色的佛教，------------------你們還不是相信有西天極樂

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-4-25 05:07

引用:

原帖由血魔於 2010-4-9 20:18 發表
上校，國內的報章你都好信的
你要明白，國內是支持無神論的，見有個友仔，出個Post支持佢論點，
當然起晒摃
--------------------------夠有大把考古証據支持基督教是獨一的神，你又唔信，做人不要選擇性相信

...

真的以一個信耶和華的人來講,是很難接受的...Sorry!

第1.....咁就麻煩阿魔兄舉D例子黎,等大家增吓見識啦....

第2.....首先佛...係無神論,即是無神又無仙的,別攪錯民間膜拜就是佛學..

第3....佛學裡,只要是行八正道,就信那個宗教都無問題...

第4....係西方極樂世界,亦即是西方宗教說的天堂......唔係西天極樂................

第5......以上原文,並不是來自大陸佬的報張,而是直接緝綠自作者原書原文....thx!

[ 本帖最後由 khadafy 於 2010-4-26 05:22 編輯 ]

作者: ali 時間: 2010-4-26 03:06

引用:

原帖由血魔於 2010-4-9 20:18 發表 [url=redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=10473196&ptid=339987][/url]上校，國內的報章你都好信的你要明白，國內是支持無神論的，見有個友仔，出個Post支持佢論點，當然起晒摃--------------------------夠有大把考古証據支持基督教是獨一的神，你又唔信，做人不要選擇性相信...

引用:

原帖由 khadafy 於 2010-3-6 07:07 發表中國時報依據法新社 28 日從耶路撒冷發出是電訊，指出台拉維夫大學教授赫佐格，也是著名以色列考古學家，發表質疑聖經故事的真實性論文。

血兄，你有冇睇清楚 [attachimg]1317985[/attachimg][attach]1317989[/attach] 「中國時報依據法新社 28 日」，中國時報係台灣報章，台灣人同港人一樣，都有好多係信神拜佛，有拜媽祖，有信聖母；有拜佛祖，亦有向耶穌祈禱。冇睇清楚就入o左內地數，係唔o岩o既！

作者: ali 時間: 2010-4-26 03:16

引用:

原帖由 khadafy 於 2010-4-25 05:07 發表

真的以一個信耶和華的人來講,是很難接受的...Sorry!
第1.....咁就麻煩阿魔兄舉D例子黎,等大家增吓見識啦....
第2.....首先彿...係無神論,即是無神又無仙的,別攪錯民間摸拜就是彿學..
第3....彿學裡 ...

「佛」是單企人邊，雙企人是「彿」，彷彿的「彿」

係膜拜，不要搞錯。

作者: khadafy 時間: 2010-4-26 05:39

引用:

原帖由 ali 於 2010-4-26 03:16 發表

「佛」是單企人邊，雙企人是「彿」，彷彿的「彿」
係膜拜，不要搞錯。

已改正.....唔該,唔該......

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