Hi Brothers taurus & dd05ng,

We are the oldies and we do have somethings in common, for sure.
I would very much like to share the past experience, either in school or society, with anybody here.

Taurus, I suppose, we studied in the same school .  Perhaps, we had had kicked up rows before as most of us were teddy boys with waxed protruding hair style.  We didn't use school-bags in secondary schooling; we carried those thick and heavy textbooks, e.g. Arithmatics, Physics, Biology and etc., in our hands exhibiting our supremacy in school.

Recitation and unseen dictation were the must in the class but i hated them because I never got a pass.  Maybe the teacher had picked on me since I was the most naughty guy and trouble-maker.

I enjoyed those school days since there were few distractions.   Life was simple and happy though hard. The 'Ting Dong Song" is my favourite but the school song was rather boring...lol

So long, cheers.

Brother taurus and brother eiahyeah

Yes. We are the old ones in this forum.

In school, my English standard was only about average. I think we had a better English learning environment (in terms of software) during our time. We (students, parents, and teachers) were more determined and better motivated. Our mindset, during those days, was that one had to do better in English if one wanted to get into a better school and then a better job. In primary school, we had to learn Grammar and that formed the solid foundation. For non-English speakers, learning Grammar is a very useful approach to understand the characteristics and constuction of the language.

During the 50s-70s, most of the young people watched western movies, listened to pop songs. I was able to pick up quite a bit of vocabulary and pronunciation through the lyrics of songs by the Beatles, Bee Gees, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Peter Paul and Mary, ..... From movies, I still remember how I learned to pronounce "the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain" from My Fair Lady.

In terms of hardware (especially information and communciations technology), the English learning environment should be much much better nowadays. The problem is, as I see it, young people in Hong Kong are in general lack of themotivation and determination to improve their English (and even Chinese). They do not have the desire to communicate with others using proper English (or Chinese). They watch Cantonese movies, listen to Cantonese songs. What's worse is that most of the lyrics and conversations are not proper language. They wrote SMS, ICQ, again, not in proper language. From time to time, I feel miserable whenever I have to read letters/emails/reports written by the local university graduates. In contrast, young people in the Mainland are more determinated and highly motivated to learn English.

The government, the Education authority in particular, has to be responsible for this crisis. They have been trying hard to convince Hong Kong people that using our mother tongue as the media of learning is a better approach. I am sure, in the case of Hong Kong, it is definitely the best approach to produce a bunch of school leavers who can neither write nor speak English and Chinese properly. Lots of kids are actually proud of being illiterate, because this is how their idols and peer group behave.

Well, I have been talking too much (typing too much), it is the old age syndrome

Cheers. Have a nice weekend.

[ 本帖最後由 dd05ng 於 2006-8-25 09:08 AM 編輯 ]

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原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-25 13:14 發表
Hi Brothers taurus & dd05ng,

We are the oldies and we do have somethings in common, for sure.
I would very much like to share the past experience, either in school or society, with anybody  ...

Hi neiahyeah,

Having read your message I have a strong feeling of meeting old friend and am sure you know which school I have referred to. Yes, teddy boys, tight-sleeve trousers and strapped text-books were popular by then.

I had a collection of all Beatles long-play plastic discs which were unfortunately lost through changes of my residence.

You are now doing very well with your English ! Let's see how we can keep up this lively exchange of messages to hopefully encourage more members of this forum to join in !

Cheers to this in advance ...

引用:

原帖由 dd05ng 於 2006-8-25 16:44 發表
Brother taurus and brother eiahyeah

Yes. We are the old ones in this forum.

In school, my English standard was only about average. I think we had a better English learning environment (in ter ...

Hi brother dd05ng,

In spite of my white hair and my hair-line being pushed more and more backwards than before, I have not considered myself being an old man until you and brother neiahyeah brought it up. Just like Clinton said recently " I hate being sixty ..." even though I'm not yet sixty, still many many weeks to go.  

Five hundred miles, five hundred miles, five hundred miles, five hundred miles, Lord I walked five hundred miles away from home .... simple lyrics like these with the sound of strumming guitar chords were favourites in a lazy holiday afternoon.  

To be fair, let's not criticize our younger generation that much because they are in fact the victim of this century. Let's take a constructive and positive approach to help answering their questions with our best ...

May I join in? Brother Taurus, if you don;t mind me calling you so.

Grammar had been taught years ago even to school children in England, remember the various grammar schools.  There are complains from employers, university lecturers on poor English from younger persons in UK.  To teach or not to teach grammar?  Grammatically correct English is of course important, that is not doubt about that.  The argument is on how to achieve that desirable standard.

Hi brother TAURUS.

"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to Brother Taurus, happy birthday to you..."

The party was held in the hall of St. John ...we used to celebrate our birthdays or seasonal holidays by holding parties on private premises.  We needed to take the pick-up, plastic discs, drinks and decorations to the venue.. of course our partner...hmmmm... but the most important and exciting aim was we could meet many lovely gals ....maybe your best half....

I am just on the wrong side of 60.  Don't you think we were classmates?

Anyway best wishes to you on your birthday and Long Live Brother Taurus

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原帖由 happycamel 於 2006-8-25 20:45 發表
May I join in? Brother Taurus, if you don;t mind me calling you so.

Come on brother happycamel, let's be casual and drop all kinds of formality in this forum, you're by all means welcome and , in fact, anybody and everybody, are welcome ...

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原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-25 22:21 發表
Hi brother TAURUS.

"Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to Brother Taurus, happy birthday to you..."

The party was held in the hall of St. John .. ...

  What's happening ?

I enjoy a party as well as the last part of your sentence but I'm afraid I'm unfortunately not your classmate. Even so, it does not affect the friendship we have built through exchange of our feelings and memories. Let's keep it up, brother neiahyeah ...

By the way, my name tells you when I was born ... ha ha ... no secret la

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原帖由 MovieMonster 於 2006-8-25 21:07 發表
Grammar had been taught years ago even to school children in England, remember the various grammar schools.  There are complains from employers, university lecturers on poor English from younger pe ...

I wonder when our Chief Executive visited to Singapore, did he explore whether English grammar was taught in schools there or elsewhere in other countries ? Can anybody tell us ?

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原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-26 12:50 AM 發表


I wonder when our Chief Executive visited to Singapore, did he explore whether English grammar was taught in schools there or elsewhere in other countries ? Can anybody tell us ?

I don't know either.  But, in my opinion, the teaching of English grammar is most important to all students learning English, since they will learn that set of rules describing the structure of English language and controlling the way how English sentences are properly formed.

Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school.  I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical errors without knowing it.

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-30 10:53 PM 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school.  I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

May I?

引用:

Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended the high school there.  I can speak day-to-day English fluently, but I would probably make a lot of grammatical mistakes when it comes down to business-letter writing, and the like.

引用:

原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-8-31 15:24 發表


May I?

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原帖由 koolaar 於 2006-8-31 11:24 AM 發表


May I?

May I?



QUOTE:

        I attended the high school in NZ when Grammar wasn't taught .  I can speak day-to-day English fluently but I would probably make a lot of grammatical mistakes when writing business letters and the like.


No hard feeling

Dear all,

I am new to this forum and have been following your frankly discussions with great joy.

For some reasons, I have got the feelings that a lot of people in Hong Kong reject the use of English simply for convenience reason.

My experience in mastering a foreign language is that one has to think the language and incorporate it in his / her daily life.  One has to practise it if he/she really wishes to improve the proficiency of the language.

The other day, I was discussing with a friend from Hawaii about speaking English.  We shared the views that everywhere people speak with an accent and one's command of English should not be judged on the basis of his accent.  Yet, what makes Chinese speaking people difficult to speak fluent English is that the Chinese and English languages belong to two distinctive linguistic tribes and that processing of the two languages is likely to overtax the speakers' fluency, resulting in sharp punctuations among words as our brains are accustomed to learn and speak Chinese from the very beginning of our life.  I suppose the same problem of fluency applies to many non-native English speakers, particularly people in Asia whose languages are spoken in a way so much different from the languages in Europe.

There is no way and no need to correct one's accent as I consider it a reflection of the cultural background of the speaker.  With respect to the matter of fluency, I would like to make the following suggestions and hope that they are of any help to those who encounter tremendous problems in speaking English:

- do not feel panic, speak slowly and try to maintain the flow;
- think English before and during the speech : allow a few seconds to think of the key words / idea in English before you start a sentence.  Your thoughts should always be ahead of your speech;
- waltzing with your words in a flow, do not make a sudden stop as this is quite often when speaking Chinese;
- listen to how native English speakers make presentation and see what you can learn from them; and, last but not the least,
- practise it as much as possible.

Do not feel embarrassed when you make mistakes.  Everybody makes mistakes.  I make a lot of grammatical mistakes too.

Luar

[ 本帖最後由 Luar 於 2006-8-31 04:30 PM 編輯 ]

For younger students, developing a good reading habit is more important than grammar.

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-31 06:53 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school.  I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

Yes, you are very correct, brother SKT174 ...

Without grammar as a foundation of your language, you will STILL be able to manage conversation without problem because body language will help in this type of communication.

But when you sit down to write, it is a different matter.

Sometimes, the vice versa is also true. Some people can write very well but may have difficulty in expressing themselves by words of mouth.

It's hard to be perfect in all respect, unfortunately !

[ 本帖最後由 taurus 於 2006-8-31 10:05 PM 編輯 ]

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原帖由 Luar 於 2006-8-31 04:23 PM 發表
Dear all,

I am new to this forum and have been following your frankly discussions with great joy.

For some reasons, I have got the feelings that a lot of people in Hong Kong reject the use of ...

Hi Brother Luar

Welcome to join in.  What you write is precise and laconic.

I have been engaged in the use of English language for years and i opine:


First, only about 2000 different words are required for our daily conversation and communication. The mastery of those words will sure make us masters of correct speaking and writing.  Nobody ever use all the words in the dictionary.

Second, I reckon that simple English is good English. It is ignorant to use big words or complicated sentences when simple ones will answer the same purpose. Most the famous speakers and writers do use simple words and sentences.

Third, the most important thing is that the foundamental principles of Gramma must be mastered otherwise we may be making conspicuous blunders while thinking we are speaking or writing with the utmost accuracy.

Fourth and so on...  what you have mentioned are correct and most useful.

In the nutshell, since English is not our mother language and we have little knowledge of thier culture, dont expect we could speak or write as good as the real McCoy though we have tried our best.


Ciao

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原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-31 22:01 發表

Hi Brother Luar

Welcome to join in.  What you write is precise and laconic.

I have been engaged in the use of English language for years and i opine:

First, only about 2000 differe ...

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Neiahyeah,

Seeing you saying ciao, so I greet you in Italian ! That's all I know ... haha ...

Arrivederci, ciao !

引用:

原帖由 taurus 於 2006-8-31 10:18 PM 發表


Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Neiahyeah,

Seeing you saying ciao, so I greet you in Italian ! That's all I know ... haha ...

Arrivederci, ciao !

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Taurus


Arrivederci, ciao


I dont know Italian but I am sure my return is correct, :

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原帖由 neiahyeah 於 2006-8-31 22:42 發表

Buon giorno ! Buona sera ! Signor Taurus

Arrivederci, ciao

I dont know Italian but I am sure my return is correct, :

Hi Brother Neiahyeah,

You REALLY is full of wisdom !

Both Buon giorno & Buona sera are greetings, in Chinese 你好嗎. Buon giorno is used in the morning whereas Buona sera is used in the evening.

For the time being, I try to stay away from strangers in the afternoon because I don't know how to greet them ... haha

i think it is good to have someone that speaks english natively to be our primary school or even kindergarten teacher, and make it compulsory for students to converse in english for a certain number of hours. (this is to build up a english environment for the younger generations)

parents play a very important part too, i believe that one can lose a language by not using it frequently, let alone learning it.

引用:

原帖由 SKT174 於 2006-8-31 06:53 發表
Grammar wasn't taught in NZ when I attended high school.  I can speak day to day English fluently but when it comes down to business lettering and the like, I probably made a lot of grammatical err ...

Hi Brother SKT174,

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

As our mother tongue "Cantonese", we do not have to study Cantonese Grammar as well.

But English as a second language to us or to anybody, I cannot imagine how one can use the language without knowing its grammar.

Take, for example, French or Italian or even Spanish, you can learn a few day-to-day short sentences or even only words to help you while you are there as a tourist. But to use them to express yourself in writing, I really cannot imagine how it will work.

So, we know in NZ that Grammar is not taught as school.

Thanks again to Brother SKT174. Otherwise, it will be difficult to know situation like this !