工業界立法會議員兼負責培訓年輕人的職業訓練局主席梁君彥憂慮最低工資推高失業率,
他佐舉法國的經驗，指該國在推行最低工資後，年輕人失業率便一直高企。
何況香港有遣散費這負擔,如果最低工資薪酬訂得高,對僱主是形成壓力,
會打擊他們繼續經營的信心.


【明報專訊】最低工資條例草案將於本立法年度提交立法會，工業界立法會議員梁君彥擔心，部分僱主為免日後支付高昂的遣散費，或會先將工人工資調低至最低工資水平，然後解僱他們，以支付較少的遣散費，此舉或會推高失業率。他明言，反對將最低工資時薪定為工會提倡的33元。勞工界立法會議員葉偉明對梁君彥的言論感不幸，反指梁氏倒不如倡議取消所有勞工福利。

法國經驗 青年失業高企

在昨日的《城市論壇》上，負責培訓年輕人的職業訓練局主席梁君彥指出，最低工資一旦推行，擔心職訓局的學員難找到工作，因為年輕人技術與經驗不足，他擔心僱主會以最低工資聘請年輕人。他更佐舉法國的經驗，指該國在推行最低工資後，年輕人失業率便一直高企。

他指出，「最不幸是香港有遣散費！」他指這只會令部分僱主為避開承擔高昂的遣散費（遣散費以最後一個月工資作計算基礎），或會先調低員工的工資至最低工資的水平，然後解僱他們，這或會推高失業率。他認為日後最低工資的水平不可定得太高，反對時薪定為33元。

[ 本帖最後由 kcpw0n 於 2008-10-20 11:37 編輯 ]

引用:

原帖由 毛球 於 2008-10-18 02:15 發表

泰林清盤13店全結業
(明報)10月17日 星期五 23:25

繼連鎖集團U-Right上周被清盤後，有62年歷史的泰林無線電行在金融海嘯下今日全線結業，影響260名員工 ...

I seriously doubt if anyone employed by Tai Lum was being paid the minimum wage.
Min wage is a two blade sword, if there are less employment or less establishment, rent will eventually trickles downwards ( painful process ) to a point where new business can start again.
If competitiveness is build solely by suppressing one side ( wages of the less fortunate )  and not the broader side ( land use, rent ), sooner or later, something bad will happen.
Intervene is sometimes a necessary evil.

[ 本帖最後由 Rubber 於 2008-10-20 13:37 編輯 ]

引用:

原帖由 Rubber 於 2008-10-20 12:07 PM 發表


I seriously doubt if anyone employed by Tai Lum was being paid the minimum wage.
Min wage is a two blade sword, if there are less employment or less establishment, rent will eventually trickles d ...

泰林同最低工資當然冇關係, 佢只係經濟不景氣加管理不善的頭一批犧牲者.

香港一向最成功同寶貴既係經濟自由, 租金及薪酬水平主要由市場調節, 市場定律是靠供求平衡, 經濟不景租金及薪酬自然下調, 百業興旺租金及薪酬自然上升. 單以社會民生作考慮, 爭取最低工資表面上可解低技術勞工收入問題, 不過最怕幫唔到仲拖慢整個經濟發展, 班僱主要保持競爭力就要控制成本效益, 失業率同通脹必首當其衝, 低廉消費業務難再生存, 汰弱留強之下, 租金未下跌, 行業壟斷已加劇, 競爭力被削弱, 民生依然冇改善. 依家d吉舖其實隨處可見, 只係一d旺點特別搶手, 有錢都未必有, 到底係業主不到價寧可丟空定係乏人問津? 要地產價下跌經濟代價不菲, 既要干預, 何不索性限制物業價格, 何苦要壓迫中小企業? 呢個提議當然又引申其他問題, 所以唔可以就一個片面問題要求立法以為就可以解決, 痛苦過後係點唔可以一廂情願.

In my book, it might be not the right time to activate this ordinance because of recent financial tsunami.  I believe this act would make the enterprise in low margin going belly up.  As a result, this act would intensify the devastating of recent financial turmoil, unemployment rate would soar.

引用:

原帖由 無神論狂徒 於 2008-10-20 19:43 發表
In my book, it might be not the right time to activate this ordinance because of recent financial tsunami.  I believe this act would make the enterprise in low margin going belly up.  As a result, thi ...

你估 d 政棍們肯唔肯 ？

話之你死人冧樓，
佢地最緊要搏掌聲，
學亞顛狗話齋，
唔「譁眾」點「取寵」呀。

引用:

原帖由 毛球 於 2008-10-20 19:12 發表

泰林同最低工資當然冇關係, 佢只係經濟不景氣加管理不善的頭一批犧牲者.

香港一向最成功同寶貴既係經濟自由, 租金及薪酬水平主要由市場調節, 市場定律是靠供求平衡, 經濟不景租金及薪酬自然下調, 百業興旺租金及 ...

The high land price is a form of " pre-paid " TAX, in which every citizen have to paid it back eventually ( in rent which in turn as higher cost in dinner / goods ) to the land tycoons and govt.  No body can escape from this TAX.  I think HK Govt should try to lower the land cost.

There are always a significant amount of under-educated people in Hong Kong.
The govt should plan a way to absorb this work force and turn them into valuable assets.
Manufacturing is the way out to utilized this resources and create jobs.
It is very sad to see from 1997 onwards, the HKSAR govt did nothing to help small manufacturers in HONG KONG.

Exactly right!  What we need right now is conscientious politician.  Noday, there is too many politicians aiming to make big bucks on their position, ripping apart  a big chunk from us - tax payer.  I dislike such politicians who treated the people's livelihood as a means to gain profit .
I understand applause is equal to survival in this "industry".  They cannot exist without public acknowledgement.  Nevetheless, some of them have lost the balance.

引用:

原帖由 Rubber 於 2008-10-21 10:47 AM 發表


The high land price is a form of " pre-paid " TAX, in which every citizen have to paid it back eventually ( in rent which in turn as higher cost in dinner / goods ) to the land tycoons and govt.   ...

Apart from lowering the land cost, to avoid directly interfering the property market, Government can also introduce a kind of tax system which can draw the income from the property developer according to different rates to discourage the unhealthy market.  Tax collected then can be used for the benefits of the entire society, e.g. extra support to the SME and re-training of low-skill workers to upgrade their value.  It should not be solely the responsibility of the HKG Government if our Legco members have never given same kind of positive suggestion properly but just opposing the Government for everything.  Our Chief Executive Tung was blamed for the serious decline of the property market after he proposed the “85,000” scheme (which should be a way to help the poor), but in fact it’s just because of the coincidence of the financial crisis.  I think the Government was too weak to deal with these politicians after 1997 as whatever policy there will be the drawbacks and the politicians are just attacking with different arguments and it’s becoming the trend in HKG.

引用:

原帖由 Rubber 於 2008-10-21 10:47 發表


The high land price is a form of " pre-paid " TAX, in which every citizen have to paid it back eventually ( in rent which in turn as higher cost in dinner / goods ) to the land tycoons and govt.   ...

好心你啦, 又老調重彈
2000年老懵董同當時房屋局長黃昇華已經不遺餘力賤賣土地
地價樓價大瀉
週街吉舖拉閘冇人租
當時全港市民生活有幾幸福呀 ?
一星期以內隔日必有人跳樓, 燒炭
賤地價, 賤樓價就幸福 ?

全港有六七十萬戶家庭住公屋
地價樓價關佢地乜事呀 ?
點樣人人走唔甩要交變相 "" pre-paid  TAX" 法 ?

引用:

原帖由 飛毛腿 於 2008-10-21 13:28 發表


好心你啦, 又老調重彈
2000年老懵董同當時房屋局長黃昇華已經不遺餘力賤賣土地
地價樓價大瀉
週街吉舖拉閘冇人租
當時全港市民生活有幾幸福呀 ?
一星期以內隔日必有人跳樓, 燒炭
賤地價, 賤樓價就幸福 ?  ...

You never understands.
The cost of rent is always the fixed cost.
The cost pay for the land will finally be absorbed by ALL citizens.
So in a sense it is a TAX collected by land tycoons for the GOVT from the citizen (pre-paid).
It is a mis-concept that Hong Kong TAX rate is low in this sense.

引用:

原帖由 Rubber 於 2008-10-21 15:11 發表


You never understands.
The cost of rent is always the fixed cost.
The cost pay for the land will finally be absorbed by ALL citizens.
...

舉例話九龍站上蓋擎天半島
有人買入一單位自住也好, 出租也好
我真唔知個地價關你乜事 ? 又關天水圍阿乜太何事 ?
點樣會無厘頭轉嫁落你地身上  ?  

南丫島, 長洲地平租平啦
裡面士多雜貨舖賣一斤米幾錢 ? 一罐可樂又幾錢 ?
唔通平過港島區, 油尖區一半 ?

引用:

原帖由 飛毛腿 於 2008-10-21 17:29 發表


舉例話九龍站上蓋擎天半島
有人買入一單位自住也好, 出租也好
我真唔知個地價關你乜事 ? 又關天水圍阿乜太何事 ?
點樣會無厘頭轉嫁落你地身上  ?  h:" />

南丫島, 長洲地平租平啦
裡面士多雜貨舖賣一斤米幾 ...

Of course I don't care about residential building.
I am focusing on land use that can create jobs.

In the TVB series about 1 year or half an year ago, documenting livelihood of elders in Hong Kong.
One episode is about people living in Kwun Tong.
There are shops in Kwun Tong that can manage to sell bread / buns at around $1 each, just because their rent is low.

原來的商家佬咁好人, 唔將的租金計落成本度,   唔向消費者開刀收回, 一本萬利

引用:

原帖由 FXO 於 2008-10-22 10:07 發表
原來的商家佬咁好人, 唔將的租金計落成本度,   唔向消費者開刀收回, 一本萬利

7-11 要交租
賣一份報紙六蚊
街邊報紙檔唔駛交租
賣一份報紙又係六蚊
預咗你實會死雞撐飯蓋架喇
再舉例 :
尖沙嘴甚麼瑞士錶行, 東方錶行...
果 d 舖租閒閒地廿萬卅萬一個月
大陸, 泰國, 馬來西亞...高級商業區舖租最多等如香港旺區五份一左右
去買一隻勞力士錶, 大陸, 泰國, 馬來西亞怕者平過香港三份一, 一半 ?　
預你再死拗....大陸賣一隻麥當勞漢堡包幾錢 ? 香港又幾錢 ?

將的租金計落成本度喎
你有錢去開舖, 一個月內唔摺就係奇蹟  

引用:

原帖由 Rubber 於 2008-10-21 19:56 發表


Of course I don't care about residential building.
I am focusing on land use that can create jobs.

In the TVB series about 1 year or half an year ago, documenting livelihood of elders in Hong  ...

特區政府每年賣地收入住宅用地佔總賣地收入幾多你知唔知 ?
你攞官塘嚟講
官塘中心地帶, 物華街, 裕民坊....等
除咗極少數新建商場中心如 APM 廣場之類
絕大部份係四五十年前舊樓地舖
就算你去彌敦道, 銅鑼灣怡和街一帶都係
最貴租商舖絕大部份都係幾十年前舊樓地舖
幾十年前舊樓有咩高地價 ? 政府有咩理由同能力去控制私人地舖租金水平 ?
你老兄對香港房產商舖一無所知, 對營商亦連皮毛都不曉
只識將問題賴在咩高地價上
以為賤地價就人人可以安居樂業 ?

引用:

原帖由 飛毛腿 於 2008-10-22 13:38 發表


7-11 要交租
賣一份報紙六蚊
街邊報紙檔唔駛交租
賣一份報紙又係六蚊
預咗你實會死雞撐飯蓋架喇
再舉例 :
尖沙嘴甚麼瑞士錶行, 東方錶行...
果 d 舖租閒閒地廿萬卅萬一個月
大陸, 泰國, 馬來西亞 ...

做生意的租金唔計落成本度, 我都係第一次聽.

原來7-11淨係賣報紙.   

又賣勞又MAC記, 原來你做生意咁單純, 淨係識睇一樣野

[ 本帖最後由 FXO 於 2008-10-22 15:57 編輯 ]

倒閉,栽員潮剛起,
呢陣時要訂最低工資 時薪33至35元,
嘩!!!!有咁筍咩,
重想加薪,減工時,
僱主要搵你做,
僱員就返屋企.
唔駛你咁辛苦,
攤抖吓啦!!!!

引用:

原帖由 飛毛腿 於 2008-10-22 13:52 發表
... ...
最貴租商舖絕大部份都係幾十年前舊樓地舖
幾十年前舊樓有咩高地價 ? 政府有咩理由同能力去控制私人地舖租金水平 ?
... ...
...將問題賴在咩高地價上
以為賤地價就人人可以安居樂業 ?

首先, 價格釐定係供求. 但係大前提係個市. 政府要做既係點樣作出"財富資源分配政策以平衡競爭同社會協調". "控制市場"只可能係其中一個手段.

個市好, 大家搵到錢有能力既時候, 樓市需求價格升. 開心到不得了.
ok, 個市唔好又點, 對於一d失業, 低收入, 少積蓄, 剛踏出社會既人, 如果仲要比高樓價既租金, 係百上加斤.

政府有理由同能力 "作出財富資源分配政策" 去降低生活成本.  個政策叫 "公共屋邨", 而公屋商舖租金比較便宜, 所以商品價格有"下調空間", 但係價格始終同"市場"決定.

"公共屋邨"係香港社會既資產, 對於買賣公屋我係好有保留.

老董的政策係想短期內控制市場, 降低樓價以降低整體社會生活成本, 提高整體社會競爭力.  

問題係老董無睇清楚個大勢, 無諗清楚事件因由後果. 就去干預市場. 難聽一句, 佢唔知佢自己做緊咩.

個市唔好, 抄家離塲, 用家托市, 高供款已經辛苦, 一生積蓄化為烏有. 唔好話8萬5係為商家, 係咪好心我唔知, 不過結果就係壞事.

依家最低工資就係"控制市場".  要做唔係問題. 但係, 唔該, 尊貴既議員, 做野要睇大時大勢, 然後諗清諗楚.  先出手.

timway 政版呢度第一個狂插老董八萬五, 賤賣土地政策, 不能知所謂....
正正係在下
不過有 d 共產大鑊飯主義者偏偏就相信老董九噏咩提高香港競爭力
我無數次反駁呢 d 腦殘低 b 論點 - 地平樓平會提高競爭力
照咁講, 老撾, 柬埔寨競爭力高過日本十倍 !

>>>尊貴既議員, 做野要睇大時大勢
有部份係腦殘兼鼠目寸光, 根本唔知咩叫大時大勢
有部份係詐傻扮懵, 借頭借路趁香港病就攞佢命
例如 2002年人心最虛弱, 最冇信心時
劉穢卿, 吳靄儀呢亭港奸就大鑼大鼓話要港幣脫聯繫匯率
而近兩年美元弱過藥煲時就提都唔提

咁樣講, 8萬5真係天真到不得了.

不過, 如果在所有其他狀況不變之下. (跟本無可能) 經濟學上, 降低樓價係會提高整體社會競爭力.  

有機會了解下老撾, 呢十年變化好大, 發展潛力好高.

引用:

原帖由 至尊豪庭9 於 2008-10-23 22:07 發表

on9,用返你理論,埃塞俄比亞人工平英,美,日何止十倍,佢地應該競爭力高英,美,日十倍啦,更加唔會有你地所講有最低工資就會增加失業,失業率一定低過英,美,日,一個饅頭就請到人啦,應該一早取代英,美,日成為世界金融中心 ...

都唔知你吠乜
我由頭到尾都未講過最低工資同競爭力關係
你根本就唔知我講乜
死開啦  

引用:

原帖由 至尊豪庭9 於 2008-10-23 22:07 發表

on9,用返你理論,埃塞俄比亞人工平英,美,日何止十倍,佢地應該競爭力高英,美,日十倍啦,更加唔會有你地所講有最低工資就會增加失業,失業率一定低過英,美,日,一個饅頭就請到人啦,應該一早取代英,美,日成為世界金融中心 ...

Please mind your words here.

引用:

原帖由 xocatII 於 2008-10-30 16:37 發表


Please mind your words here.

呢句你講左好多次啦!