Brother White kitty and Carmanlallam,
You both have your points. I have also visit this sauna before although I don't do it now. because I think it is neither vergi nor non-vigi.  When I was in the sitting room , i talk to the MALE manager and the manager said , we do not provide ml and we do provide soft skill and that is why we have the customers here and they knew it. OUr bg do not really have good bg skill.
Anyway , I think it is only a matter of courteous not to provide numbers here. But as a consumer, we have the right to know.  Brother post thread here should balance these of what to tell and what not to tell  . Brother should know what they want to have and go to those saunas they know what they will get. Just like you go to Macdonald , you will get hambuger.  You go to Pizza hut , you get pizza.   
Enjoy life and be happy

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原帖由 白貓兒 於 2009-9-3 00:08 發表
Dear bro. carmanlamlam and other brothers:

Obviously you, bro carmanlamlam, have been going to this sauna a lot, while I no longer visit it nowadays. Brothers here, especially you, have lately been ...

I would like to commend Whitekitty on his point about protecting the interests of the girls.  I don't visit these forums much, but did a number of months back when several girls I knew were fired from Lotto and wondered whether their misfortune was due to on-line discussions.  I discovered that their numbers were posted in a not-so-secret "secret code" (post 880); they were fired shortly after the code's posting.

I believe what happens between a masseuse and her client is a matter between them, and, without the consent of both parties involved, is no one else's business.  It should be sufficient that members of this forum know they can find favorite girls and, with a little sincere effort, develop a relationship that suits the interests of both parties.  The adventure is in discovery, not in disclosure.

I also agree with Whitekitty that once sensitive information becomes discussed in public, whether true or false, the girl is at extreme risk of losing her job.  Lotto management is indeed well-aware of these posts, as are law-enforcement agencies.  These girls get targeted for investigation as soon as their information is posted.  If law-enforcement catches the girl in a act they deem inappropriate for the sauna's license, the girl must be fired immediately.

I know for a fact that some of these girls experienced rather serious hardship after getting fired.  Like many of us, they had family responsibilities (old parents, kids) that had to be met.  Clearly, by the nature of some comments, some forum members really look down on these girls.  Bros, they are human beings like all of us and it is really not fair for customers to force misfortune on them.  How is it fair to pressure them for services and then say it's their fault for providing those services -- that they should have know better in the first place?  If you haven't figured it out by now, most of these girls would prefer to be somewhere else doing something else.  But, by life's circumstances, they're in a difficult (and apparently thankless) position serving some rather insensitive bros.  The business is very competitive for them and, unfortunately, some girls make some bad judgments about some of the customers they serve, not thinking that those customers will end up helping to fry their squid.

If you can't appreciate what they do for you, and respect their circumstances and situation, then please go somewhere else to get your jollies.  Don't ruin things for everyone else.

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原帖由 zagong 於 2009-9-10 18:41 發表


I would like to commend Whitekitty on his point about protecting the interests of the girls.  I don't visit these forums much, but did a number of months back when several girls I knew were fired from Lotto and wondered whether their misfortune was due to on-line discussions.  I discovered that their numbers were posted in a not-so-secret "secret code" (post 880); they were fired shortly after the code's posting.

Thanks for your commendation.
You mean a member (messenger) posted these numbers 586668116 in May 2008 in post 880? Well, I can tell you:
58 left Sauna Lotto of her own accord; she wasn't fired;
68 was fired much later, probably after carmanlamlam reported her doing hj for him (well, I am not saying his report must have been the cause of her dismissal);
116 was fired in autumn (if my memory doesn't fail me) 2008, not in May. I have reason to believe that some customer betrayed her by telling the manager face to face something that had happened;
also a member here did report her doing hj (post 948) .

As far as I am concerned, in the days when I used to report in this thread, though I sort of helped make certain bgs there known to give fractional VAS, my reports, I am sure,
never contributed to the dismissal of any of them, though they may have sensitised the bgs themselves.
In the early days, after I reported about the early bg 13, another bg became sort of jealous and threatened to print and circulate those reports at the time in the bgs' rest room!
(though she never did so).
But 13 was fired much later, after I became inactive last year,  some time before 116 was fired. It remains unclear/uncertain even now
whether 13 really deserved her punishment, or the management (or manager) actually 'did her away/dispensed with her' by wrongly accusing her of crossing his baseline.
I know the manager is reading these recent posts of ours-----I venture to raise the issue here: Was there concrete evidence against 13 at that time?
Did she really do the wrong thing? h:" />h:" />h:" />h:" />h:" />  Was someone abusing his power? h:" />h:" />h:" />h:" />h:" />

Another case: I once reported a bg 9X who was very nice to me and was good at the 'soft skill' (ie fractional VAS and being gentle, sweet). She was subsequently fired after being found doing hj to a customer (but the incident was never reported here).

I also hinted at another bg's breasts touching my head/face while she bent her back to massage my chest. I used figure of speech, 'sugar candy' as I chatted amusedly with another member here about it.
He had also enjoyed 'sugar candy' from her before. This candy bg is still now working at Lotto (!).

What I want to say is: amid possible criticisms in those days, I still managed to avoid crossing the line in reporting. There can be different ways to report, without really
specifying 'nipples sucking' or fondling with your dick!

Finally what about the 66 of 2008?

I reported her doing 前列腺......in private I informed certain brothers what she did beyond serving 前列腺. Thereafter, other members were discreet in reporting
about her, without causing her any risk (apart from any that she incurred herself). But afterwards, a member (not known to me and not in my confidence) did report her crossing the line.
Still, 66 could keep her job. Also, she was known to ask customers for a tip of $300 (and I think sometimes she got even more).
She was never fired, but she left of her own accord.
I venture to ask: Was the management really unaware of her crossing the line??
Was partiality in her favour involved? Was the disciplining of bgs consistent and fair ?

At the end of the day, it is clear that a bg is at the mercy of the management, even if she never does cross the line.

By the time I became inactive last year, I felt really bad about the situation.
I really wished that this thread had never been initiated. I hated to have started it. There are so many things not in our control.

Now my digging old things up and mentioning numbers...........the numbers are meaningless by now,
the bgs involved are now working elsewhere with different identities, or out of the industry.

[ 本帖最後由 白貓兒 於 2009-9-11 12:47 編輯 ]

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原帖由 白貓兒 於 2009-9-10 22:23 發表


116 was fired in autumn (if my memory doesn't fail me) 2008, not in May. I have reason to believe that some customer betrayed her by telling the manager face to face something that had happened; ...

You've got to be kidding!

To be honest, running this industry, who care being fired? you care ? she care ? or Lotto care ?....should be nobody care. Are you afraid that they can't find other job then.......sorry lor.....over hundreds of saunas are waiting for them.

Don't be so serious about what other people did. Take it easy.....enjoy life.....enjoy sauna.

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原帖由 9ball 於 2009-9-11 01:26 發表
To be honest, running this industry, who care being fired? you care ? she care ? or Lotto care ?....should be nobody care. Are you afraid that they can't find other job then.......sorry lor.....over h ...

Sorry, Bro, but I do care.  I've known some girls for many years, and consider them friends.  I also know that some have considerable financial challenges taking care of their families, which is why they are doing what they're doing.  So, yes, they do care when they get fired.

And because many need to take care of family in the evening, they can't work at night.  It is very difficult to find work in a sauna that has a decent daytime patronage, as the competition for those slots are highest.  

And when good girls get fired, many good bros who appreciated those girls are inconvenienced too.

Respect others and treat them well, Bro, and life will be good for all.  Indifference to others can only bring bad karma.

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原帖由 carmanlamlam 於 2009-9-11 08:50 發表
Thanks bro and know what message you are trying to tell already. Are we in a charity forum. ...

No, not a charity forum. But just a plea for some common sense and consideration.  Most bros are pretty smart and don't need to have the fine details spelled out for them to get the idea, which Whitekitty has repeatedly tried to convey.  And, if it can be avoided, why put the girls at risk.  There is really no need.  Just try use some class and discretion when talking about your adventures.  After all, no girls, no forum.

Carmanlam bro: I think talking abt VAS and even elaborating on it as long not HJ is fine. Some ppl (like whitekitty) might draw the line way lower at like 'vas' and nothing. A difference in opinion on where to draw the line is fine. However, when u talk abt nipple sucking and playing with dick (did you say using mouth too?) ... that is way over the line la ...... talking abt territory which even HJ saunas not always provide ...

Anyways, i agree wiht you on sharing abt VAS. Some high profile brothers are sometimes over-sensitive with sharing information .. perhaps they have too much information so no need to share. If so perhaps they can have an email chain which they share with their own friends. But this time, the tongue work comment is really over the line i think ...

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原帖由 carmanlamlam 於 2009-9-11 08:50 發表
I told you whitekitty the night manager was actually discussing with the frequest clients on which numbers of bg has what kind of services provided?

No, you didn't specify at first it was the night guy. The night-time PR (not bearing the title of manager) can be more liberally-spoken than the day-time manager who has the power of dismissing bgs (whichever shift) and staff delegated by the sauna director. The manager usually does not take an active part in the day-to day (or should I say night-to night?) running of the sauna during night shift hours. But it is he who dismisses bgs when he so desires.

[ 本帖最後由 白貓兒 於 2009-9-11 13:35 編輯 ]

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原帖由 extensive123 於 2009-9-3 14:12 發表
其實其他正場1／2VAS係正常服務...

且有d齋場的管理層都認同呢種
"半VAS" 係 "合法" 的動作.   

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原帖由 白貓兒 於 2009-9-11 12:58 發表


No, you didn't specify at first it was the night guy. The night-time PR (not bearing the title of manager) can be more liberally-spoken than the day-time manager who has the power of dismissing bg ...

好深奧 ...................

thx for sharing

Silence is golden, golden!!

Brothers,

We are all here to exchange information and have fun, so why we have to care the reaction of the Lotto's management.  We are actually do free advertisement for Lotto.  

Without any solid evident, I don't really think the management or manager of Lotto can fire a bg just based on the information from this forum.   I think those manager(s) already have good ideas of which bg does what, it is just a matter whether they want to any measure or not.

If I were the competitor of Lotto, I'll just come here everyday and quote different bg # every other day then Lotto have to fired all bg in a week time.

小弟初黎報到, 見各師兄你一言, 我一語,好不熱鬧!
但Kilopapa兄之回覆便見精研, 一針見血, 利害!

I quite agree with Kilopapa that the management of Lotto is fully aware of what their bg is doing.  Dont we think they have not access to these sites.  Indeed, I think some of the bgs were fired for other reasons such as not be co-operative, taking long leave etc.  This is just an excuse they used as they cant think of anyother better ones.  No body will have any say if they fire their bg becauce of illegal act.

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原帖由 Kilopapa 於 2009-9-14 15:08 發表

We are all here to exchange information and have fun, so why we have to care the reaction of the Lotto's management.  We are actually do free advertisement for Lotto.   ...

In general, bros, management doesn't care what goes on in a massage room between a masseuse and her customer.  They only care when that information gets outside that room and into the public arena, where that information can affect the well-being the sauna's business license and the employment of all concerned.  When that happens, management would much rather fire the few girls involved, even if evidence is unsubstantiated, than to risk the overall business.

"Regulatory Officialdom", for their purposes, doesn't really care what goes on between a masseuse and her customer either, but legally must investigate matters when information becomes public and that info gets called to their attention.  This can result from an article in the press (usually tabloid), or from an observation made in some other public forum that someone else in Officialdom notices.  

When Officialdom needs to check up on the industry, they come to forums like these to find girls to target, as these forums offer one of the easiest sources of info to follow up on and "verify" ("send the bait in to check up on numbers 'x', 'y' and 'z' and let's see what we can catch").  The same "bait" will visit the same girl 2 to 5 times to see what can be uncovered.  Some girls are street smart about who they service and can smell the bait; while some girls are not. But the fact of the matter is that the girls can get targeted as soon as you post their information here, so it really doesn't help them bros.  Nor does it help you and your fellow bros, if you think about it.  So, please, think about it.

It is easy to find favorite girls in just about any place.  Just take some time to explore and build some relationships.  That's the adventure of it, bros.  Honestly, you can do that quite well without this forum.  But if you feel compelled to share info, then just be smart, creative and discreet about it.  Please don't ruin it for everyone else.

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原帖由 carmanlamlam 於 2009-9-15 11:06 發表
But when I went there a few days ago, I still get my FULL VAS - not 1/2 or 1/4 but FULL VAS.  Is that secret enough or stupid enough even the manager will realise what I am talking about ...

As long as you don't post numbers -- and that includes not using the blatantly obvious Shift-Number keyboard code -- or names, then things should be okay.  Bros can at least know what is going on, and venture out for themselves.

Also, after making a post, please beware of PM requests for numbers and details.  If you don't personally know the bro who is making the PM request, then be careful.  Both the sauna management and Officialdom will use PM to nail down specifics, as will some girls (I've know some girls who ID'd their customers this way, and that was the end of any further relationship between the girl and customer; moreover, those girls were quick to inform other girls, which kind of ended further possibilities for those bros).

Again, just be smart, creative and discreet.

Thanks!!

I basically agreed with you but on the other hand I believe which massage shop providing what service level is an open serect.  

For instant, only new hand borther dosen't know which shop in TST, Yamatie, Jordan and Mongkok is providing full service and which one offer HJ only. Frankly speaking, brothers with long enough experience in the massage world know well and I trust the Regluatory Officialdom knows better then all of us. In fact, there are a lot of discussion in this forum talking about those shops,  so VAS is nothing serious.

After all, this is the cyber world, information appear here could be true and most probably are false.  Wise guy should make their own judgement so we should not limit ourselves to have fun in the forum.