引用:

原帖由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 10:05 發表


I'm cueing into "everything was well until the middle of the 2nd session", which suggests that "something popped up" at that point to warrant the ongoing monologue on tips.  You may want to check  ...

I first want to state I agree on almost all the things you have said so far about the state of affairs in Windsor, I see and also hear from others the exact same things being discussed here

For myself, I usually stick to the few regular BGs I know but I also have tried some new BGs recently and found their massage skills to be acceptable, so far in the new Windsor, I have not experienced any BG that I found their skills to be unacceptable.
I thank my lucky stars !

I'm not going to ask my friend more as I don't think the comfort level is there for us to go into details, all I told him is to find another BG and not do her again ... she is experienced in Windsor (though I never tried her) but she just lost a decent client as he likes to repeat and the only reason he tried her was because his regular ones left or didn't work on that day, he thought her massage was good so he repeated.

all I think from all this is ... usually a "more experienced" BG would not do any added service the first time with a client, when this client repeats she already knows how much he tiped previously, so it goes on from there ... it seems the newer BG would offer the added services the first time ...

so back to my question - if a client only wants a massage (no VAS) and he got a poor massage because the girl is unable to give one ... is it justified for Windsor to raise the minimum tip when the level of their BGs drop ?  

I am fully aware of the cheap clients Windsor have (especially at night - mostly after 1 am) and I fully endorse everyone to tip the BG over and above the minimum set but I also want to make it clear that we, as clients, have our rights to receiving a decent massage when we go there.

引用:

原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 12:38 發表
so back to my question - if a client only wants a massage (no VAS) and he got a poor massage because the girl is unable to give one ... is it justified for Windsor to raise the minimum tip when the level of their BGs drop ?

Ideally, in a fair market, if the bg is no good she should expect to forego any tips (and know the reason why).  But the market isn't really fair.  Many (and I do mean many) customers try to pay as little as possible when they have no loyalty to the bg and there is no one looking over their shoulder to call them cheap.  If there was no minimum tip, I believe too many customers would not pay any tip at all.  As I know you know (and most of us should know), bgs survive only on the tips they can earn.  Not paying a bg a decent tip for service well-provided is sort of like spitting in her face.  

For good veggie, $100/session is the standard tip, and most bgs are happy with that.  That's really not a lot of money to pay for coming away feeling much better than when you went in.  Assuming 2 sessions per customer. if a bg can do two to three customers a day, she comes away with only about $520 to $780 for her hard work (assume $40/session "wages" + $90/session tip after Windsor takes 10%).  Could we support a family on that income?  Not easily.  But many bgs do (themselves, parents and/or kids).

I say all of the above only to re-inforce what you and others have told brothers here many times.  Tipping always seems to be an issue in this forum, and the fact that tips are the major source of income for bgs in veggie saunas needs to be repeatedly made clear.

To answer your posed question on how to convey dissatifaction with a bg in the context of Windsor's rising minimum tip, all I can say is to complain "nicely" to management that the bg you experienced wasn't really good.  I find 寶文 to be quite receptive to constructive criticism about the bgs and the sauna.  He can and does talk to the girls, and I assume he can and does talk to the bosses if he sees something wrong in the business operation.

I don't think complaining about specific bg's lack of skills at the front desk presently does much good, as I don't think desk staff are trained to handle such complaints/reporting.  But we can pose the question at the front desk about the minimum tip really being required if the bg's service really isn't good at all (e.g., "Do I have to pay the minimum tip if the bg's massage is really bad?").  If enough of us asked this question rhetorically at payment time, I'm sure someone would eventurally take notice that customers want a channel of communication with both the sauna management and the bgs that we expect a minimum standard of skill before a tip is handed over.  We could all try this, right?

[ 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 15:28 編輯 ]

One thing just occured to me ... for those of us that appreciates getting a good massage ...
why is there so little info sharing in this forum on the girls that actually gives good massage ?

seems the majority of the questions here relates to who gives added service ...

[ 本帖最後由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:17 編輯 ]

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:07 發表 You're so right about the market not being fair, nor can it be fair, given the way the sauna scene works in HK.Airport saunas have no tipping system - is that fairer for the BGs ? I'm not sure ...

perhaps it would ease your disappointment
if you alternate between Windsor and another
sauna，say OPS. a diversion.

各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？

引用:

原帖由 白貓兒 於 2012-4-26 16:13 發表


perhaps it would ease your disappointment
if you alternate between Windsor and another
sauna，say OPS. a diversion.

I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGs

I hope that what I've written over the past few days doesn't give anyone here the impression that I'm complaining about everything ... in fact far from it - I enjoy going to the saunas, I enjoy the BGs that gives me good massages and the chemistry I've built both with the BGs and management ... but I do see what bros here have recently been writing about are close to the truth, I'm just reinforcing what they are saying and also adding some alternative views.

Its a pity my Chinese typing is so bad, I know the management reads this forum and I hope they can understand the English dialogue being discussed here

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原帖由 左擁右抱 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？

sorry, my written Chinese is so so and I can't type in Chinese - wish I could !

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:31 發表 I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGsI hope that what I've written over the past few ...

The panel of directors at Windsor should
have no problem understanding the English
here so far given their educational attainment .

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:31 發表 I do ... on HK side I'm a regular at Windsor, OPS and Lotto and I can say each establishment have their problems regarding treatment of their BGsI hope that what I've written over the past few ...

But dont you still patronise GFS from time
to time? Most probably you go to sauna
more than 'twice a week'.

引用:

原帖由 白貓兒 於 2012-4-26 16:43 發表


The panel of directors at Windsor should
have no problem understanding the English
here so far given their educational attainment .

good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !

I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we are writing our opinions from our heart ... I hope they at lease try to see things from the point of view of massage orientated customers.

Bro Whitekitty ... would you let them know that the last few pages of this forum are constructive suggestions for them ... just in case they missed this ?

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:07 發表
You're so right about the market not being fair, nor can it be fair, given the way the sauna scene works in HK.Airport saunas have no tipping system - is that fairer for the BGs ? I'm not sure ...

Seems this got edited out . . . But I'd like to respond to it.  I don't think any compensation arrangement is unfair if the bg knows in advance what she's agreeing to and what she's getting in return for giving her time and service.  Airports generally pay a higher hourly "wage" than veggie places in exchange for the uncertainty of tip income.  Some girls prefer this.  Others do not.

However, I would offer that customers, by choosing which type of sauna they visit, also agree to support the compensation terms for the bgs of that particular sauna.  For Windsor and other veggie places, that means paying a fair tip.

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原帖由 白貓兒 於 2012-4-26 16:50 發表


But dont you still patronise GFS from time
to time? Most probably you go to sauna
more than 'twice a week'.

   you are so right !  I also go to GFS ... and every day I try not to think about how much money I spend in saunas !  

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原帖由 左擁右抱 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？

C'mon!  It's good practice for you!    More interesting than reading an English textbook!!   

[ 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 17:02 編輯 ]

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表 good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we a ...

I think it is really up to them and they need no reminder on keeping abreast of what is voiced here.

[ 本帖最後由 白貓兒 於 2012-4-26 17:22 編輯 ]

引用:

原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表

good ... in fact, excellent ... more then excellent !

I hope they read with care on what we have written in the past few days ... I hope they understand that we are long time clients and we a ...

Agree that management would benefit from reading this!  

(so would Carmanlam's gf!!)  

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原帖由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 16:57 發表


Seems this got edited out . . . But I'd like to respond to it.  I don't think any compensation arrangement is unfair if the bg knows in advance what she's agreeing to and what she's getting in ret ...

Absolutely !  that's what we all should do while working within the system of each establishment (though in real life, some do complain even though they have to work in the system)

what I'm trying to suggest or debate is - if the fixed payment system would work in the veggie sauna industry ...
(even though this will bring about even more lazy BGs)

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 17:07 發表

Absolutely !  that's what we all should do while working within the system of each establishment (though in real life, some do complain even though they have to work in the system)

what I'm try ...

Sea Crest Sauna (海怡桑拿), primarily a veggie place, has a fixed price system.  Bgs get a higher hourly wage (comparable to an airport rate).  I know one girl working there who's worked at most veggie saunas over the years.  She returned to work there, preferring their fixed-rate compensation system to a tip system.  Sea Crest also has fewer girls on queue, so she gets more walk-in customers there than compared to working elsewhere.

What is important to her, and to most girls in this business, is constant, predictable income.  This means a good balance between regular customers (regular bookings) and walk-ins.  The problem for Windsor bgs is that there are too many bgs in the queue, so income is not so reliable.  I hope Windsor can stablize this situation for their bgs.  This is one of the main messages I hope Windsor management can get from this thread.

[ 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 19:15 編輯 ]

引用:

原帖由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 17:38 發表


Sea Crest Sauna (海怡桑拿), primarily a veggie place, has a fixed price system.  Bgs get a higher hourly wage (comparable to an airport rate).  I know one girl working there who's worked at most v ...

Interesting ...

do you still go there at all ?  reason I ask is do you know if they still "reuse" used towels by just drying them instead of washing ? many years ago I went there ... the 2nd or 3rd time I went I saw them doing this and never went again !

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原帖由 twiceAweek 於 2012-4-26 17:47 發表

Interesting ...

do you still go there at all ?  reason I ask is do you know if they still "reuse" used towels by just drying them instead of washing ? many years ago I went there ... the 2nd or ...

Never heard of or saw this!  It's been probably three years since I was there last.  The place is a bit run down, for sure; a consequence of catering to the budget market.

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原帖由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 17:38 發表 ...

The problem for Windsor bgs is that there are too many bgs in the queue, so income is not so reliable.  I hope Windsor can stablize this situation for their bgs.  This is one of the main messages I hope Windsor management can get from this thread.

The other main messages are: (1) hire for, or train for, and maintain an above-average skill level for most, if not all, bgs, and (2) don't let the sauna become an open airport.

[ 本帖最後由 observer2012 於 2012-4-26 19:16 編輯 ]

引用:

原帖由 dssdsdwsdw 於 2012-4-26 19:56 發表
初初我想他們仍想以正骨打正旗號，問題是十個客人，有多少是女賓，有多少是真真正正的骨精。客人不是要求大師父，後生服務好，細細力R下R下，已可有大量嘜單。
當愈滿足志不在此的客人要求，愈不理房內情況，愈加入 ...

你談到的可能百分之百對。兩位我最喜歡的技師已走了。如我其餘最喜歡的也走了，我就跟著她們走，不回來。

引用:

原帖由 左擁右抱 於 2012-4-26 16:27 發表
各位師兄

代支都要講得長篇過人, 還要英文版,
幫幫忙, 講番中文版好嗎？

英文我都係油麻地。　

講下自己見解，以上師兄有講而家 Windsor 技師好參差，有些按得好，有些不合格，其實又好難講，客人都可能差別好大，有些好受力，有些就不受力，真係加加有求，配對問題。

自己覺得呢個岩按咪下次再找佢，唔岩就唔再找。

其實代支都係一樣，有些客比代支會較多一些，有些基本一對一。　睇番而家市場，少過一對一就唔係咁好。

其實我都想一個價，全包宴，例如，90 分鐘，八百就八百，一千就一千，唔使煩，不過香港都冇乜全包宴齋場。